Dick et al.:
I've located a few examples that seem similar. Two of them are from
coverage of the O.J. Simpson trial, and I'm wondering if "observe X to Y"
in the sense of "observe that X does Y" might be more common in legalese
(and if so, to what degree the first kind of construction might foreground
X in ways the second doesn't, or vice versa). --- Bill Spruiell.
COCA:
[CNN News, Simpson trial, 1995]: I observe them to be looking over the
body, and Lange appears to be describing to Radcliffe what is there.
[CBS Morning, 1995, also in reference to the Simpson trial] When I asked
you,' Did you ever observe them to argue or fight,' did you tell me about
the Christmas Eve argument?
Corpus of English Novels:
[_Prince Otto_, 1885] 'You must be right, madam,' replied the Prince.
'For six years that we have been good friends, I have observed you to grow
younger.'
On 3/4/13 8:18 AM, "Scott Carledge" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>No one has ever accused writers of computer manuals or directives of being
>literate. On occasion, literate people write on computer topics; however,
>they are exceptions to the rule.
>I impolitely on occasion read computer manuals just for amusement and
>wonder
>what was the native language of the writer before the work underwent
>machine
>translation.
>Scott Catledge
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest
>system
>Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 12:01 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: ATEG Digest - 2 Mar 2013 to 3 Mar 2013 (#2013-19)
>
>There are 4 messages totalling 917 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. OBSERVE + complement infinitive (4)
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
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>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:24:04 -0500
>From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>--14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>
>
>We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>
>
>Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>
>
>We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>*We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>
>
>I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>surpr=
>ised by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>
>
>We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>to
>cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>
>
>I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>
>
>We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>you
>from =85
>
>
>After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>complement.=
>So my question is this:
>
>
>Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>widespread
>use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>tech-speak
>but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted
>sentence?
>
>
>Dick
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a
>complement infinitive: <br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>dog=
>would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"= margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a
>complement infinitive:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog
>di=
>sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter
>cate=
>gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>prosciutto.=94 <spa=
>n>=A0</span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in
>an update notice for an iPad app:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this
>iss=
>ue to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of
>error =
>108
>when attempting playback.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5=
>in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first attempted to read it as an adverbial
>infinit=
>ive along these lines:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the
>troub=
>le of observing this issue in order to prevent you from =85</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they
>me=
>ant it as a complement.<span> </span>So my question is this:</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement
>infinitive:<span>=
>=A0 </span>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial
>English; (b) in widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloqui= al
>English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p><p
>class=3D=
>"MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br></p> To join or leave
>this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
><p>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9--
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:32:24 +0000
>From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>--_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Dick,
> I think it's an anomaly, though I admit I'm not immersed in tech talk.
> To me, the problem starts with selecting "issue" as subject (perhaps
>im=
>plied) to the verb "prevent." Presumably, whatever it is is an issue
>becaus=
>e it causes problems, not the reverse, but that may be clearer in
>context. =
>"I have observed this glitch (to) prevent people from logging on..." As i
>s=
>uggest with parentheses around 'to,' I think it would read better without
>i=
>t, somewhat echoing the grammar for other perception verbs: "I saw the
>glit=
>ch prevent some people from logging on." "I have watched alcohol ruin my
>ne=
>ighbor's life." "I heard the plane land in a nearby field."
> When you have more than one awkwardness in a sentence, it's easier to
>d=
>ismiss the judgment of the writer.
>
>Craig
>________________________________
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[[log in to unmask]
>U] on behalf of Dick Veit [[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>
>We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>
>Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>
>We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>*We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>
>I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>wo=
>uldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>surpris=
>ed by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>
>We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>to=
>cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>
>I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>
>We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>you=
>from =85
>
>After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>complement.=
>So my question is this:
>
>Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>widesprea=
>d use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>tech-spe=
>ak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the
>quoted=
>sentence?
>
>Dick
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>interface =
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>leave=
>the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><html dir=3D"ltr">
><head>
><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
>charset=3DWindows-1=
>252"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"><!----></style>
></head>
><body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
><div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
>#000000;font-size: =
>10pt;">Dick, <div> I think it's an anomaly, though I admit
>I'm
>not immersed= in tech talk.</div> <div> To me, the problem
>starts with selecting "issue&quo= t; as subject (perhaps implied) to
>the verb "prevent." Presumably= , whatever it is is an issue
>because it causes problems, not the reverse, b= ut that may be clearer in
>context. "I have observed this glitch
> (to) prevent people from logging on..." As i suggest with
>parentheses=
>around 'to,' I think it would read better without it, somewhat echoing
>the=
>grammar for other perception verbs: "I saw the glitch prevent some
>pe=
>ople from logging on." "I have watched alcohol ruin my
>neighbor's
>life." "I heard the plane land in a nearby fi=
>eld." </div> <div> When you have more than one
>awkwardness in a sentence, i= t's easier to dismiss the judgment of the
>writer.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Craig<br> <div style=3D"font-family:
>Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1">
><div id=3D"divRpF433409" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma"
>si=
>ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teaching of
>Englis=
>h Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Dick Veit
>[dickveit@GMAIL=
>.COM]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM<br> <b>To:</b>
>[log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> OBSERVE + complement
>infinitive<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a c=
>omplement infinitive:
><br>
></p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
></p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>dog=
>would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a c=
>omplement infinitive:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog di=
>sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter cate=
>gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>prosciutt=
>o.=94
><span> </span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in an
>updat=
>e notice for an iPad app:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this iss=
>ue
>to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of =
>error 108 when attempting playback.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first
>attempted to read it as an adverbial infinit= ive along these lines:</p>
><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the troub= le of observing this
>issue in order to prevent you from =85</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling
>it out, of course, I realized they me= ant it as a complement.<span>
></span>So my question is this:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive:<s=
>pan> </span>
>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b)
>in=
>widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely
>=
>a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br> </p> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>please visit the list's web interface =
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join
>or =
>leave the list" <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </p>
></div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV
>list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
><p>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_--
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:49:18 -0700
>From: "Peter H. Fries" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>--f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Re:
>
>We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>to
>cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>
>
>
>Dick, My immediate take on this example was like yours. However, I looked
>in
>my copy of John Sinclair (ed.) 1996. *The Collins Cobuild Grammar Patters
>1:
>Verbs, *Harper Collins, p 296, and found* observe *listed among verbs that
>appear in the V n to-inf pattern =96but with the note =93only in= the
>passive=94.* *This book and the second volume are based on exhaustive
>searches of the Bank of English which at the time they were preparing
>theses
>books stood at 250 million words. so inclusion in this list implies that
>observe is found in the V n to-inf pattern (in the passive) sufficiently
>frequently to meet their criteria for inclusion.
>
>The passive version of your example doesn't sound TOO bad to my ears, so I
>suspect that this example is more an extension of a known pattern rather
>than a new creation de novo. In fact I wonder if this wording is not the
>fi=
>rst version of this sentence, but rather a result of editing to fit the
>purposesof the larger text segment. For example someone might have thought
>that *this issue has been observed to =85* was too impersonal. If my hunch
>is anywhere near true the authors certainly missed--at least for you and
>for
>me.
>
>Peter
>
>
>On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement
>>infinitive:
>>
>>
>> We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>>
>>
>> Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement
>>infinitive:
>>
>>
>> We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>>
>>
>> I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example,
>> I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I
>> was sur=
>prised
>> by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>>
>>
>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app
>> and to cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>
>>
>> I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these
>> lines=
>:
>>
>>
>> We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to
>> prevent you from =85
>>
>>
>> After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>> complemen=
>t. So
>> my question is this:
>>
>>
>> Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>> widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread
>> use =
>in
>> tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity
>> in the quoted sentence?
>>
>>
>> Dick
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interfac=
>e
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
>
>
>--=20
>Peter H. Fries
>
>From mid May 2012
>Box 310
>Mount Pleasant MI 48804
>
>Phone: 989-644-3384
>Cell: 989-400-3764
>
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>
>Web page:
><http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml<http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516=
>.xml>>
>[among 'emeritus faculty']
>
>From early December 2012 to late April 2013
>
> 5751 N. Kolb Rd.
>
> Unit 28-102
>
> Tucson AZ 85750
>
>phone: 520-329-8420
>
> cell: 989-400-3764
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a
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><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_GoBack"></a>Re:</p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have observed this issue to prevent you from
>logg=
>ing into the app and to cause some instances of error 108 when attempting
>playback.<= /p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">Dick, My immediate take on this
>exa=
>mple was like yours.
>However, I looked in my copy of John Sinclair (ed.) 1996. <i>The Collins
>Co=
>build Grammar Patters 1: Verbs, </i>Harper Collins<font size=3D"4">, p
>296,=
></font>and found<i> observe </i>listed among verbs that appear in the V n
>to-inf pattern =E2=80=93but with the note =E2=80=9Conly in the p=
>assive=E2=80=9D.<i> </i>This book and <font size=3D"4">the</font> second
>vo=
>lume are based on exhaustive searches of the Bank of English which at the
>time they = were preparing theses books stood at 250 million words. so
>inclusion in this lis= t implies that observe <span>=C2=A0</span>is found
>in
>the V n to-inf pattern (in the passive) sufficiently frequently to meet
>their crite= ria for inclusion.</font></p><font size=3D"4">
>
></font><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">The passive version of
>your =
>example doesn't sound TOO bad to my ears, so I suspect that this
>example
>is more an extension of a known pat= tern rather than a new creation de
>novo. In fact I wonder if this wording is not= the f<font
>size=3D"4">i</font>rst version of this sentence, but rather a result of
>editing to fit the <font size=3D"4">purposes</font> of the larger= text
>segment. For example someone might have thought that <i>this issue ha= s
>been observed to =E2=80=A6</i> was too impersonal. If <font size=3D"4">my
>hunch is anywhere near true the auth= ors certainly missed<font
>size=3D"4">--at least<font size=3D"4"> fo</font>r= you an<font
>size=3D"4">d
>for me.</font></font></font><br></font></p><font = size=3D"4">
>
></font><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">Peter</font></p>
>
>
>
>
>
><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Dick
>Vei=
>t <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
>target=3D"_bl=
>ank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
>class=3D"gmail=
>_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
>solid;padding-left:=
>1ex"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause
>and a complement infinitive: <br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>dog=
>would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"= margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a
>complement infinitive:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog
>di=
>sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =E2=80=9Cobserve=E2=80=9D to be in
>the=
>latter category; for example, I wouldn=E2=80=99t say, =E2=80=9CI observed
>my
>dog to like prosciu= tto.=E2=80=9D <span>=C2=A0</span>So I was surprised
>by
>the following senten= ce in an update notice for an iPad app:</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this
>iss=
>ue to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of
>error =
>108
>when attempting playback.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5=
>in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first attempted to read it as an adverbial
>infinit=
>ive along these lines:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the
>troub=
>le of observing this issue in order to prevent you from =E2=80=A6</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal"= style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they
>me=
>ant it as a complement.<span> </span>So my question is this:</p><p
>class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><br></p>
>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement
>infinitive:<span>=
>=C2=A0 </span>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial
>English; (b) in widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloqui= al
>English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p><p
>class=3D=
>"MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br></p> To join or leave
>this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf= ace at:
> <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html"
>target=3D"_b=
>lank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a>
>and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web
>site
>at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
>>http://ateg.org/</a>
></p></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Peter H.
>Fries<br><=
>br>From mid May 2012<br>Box 310 <br>Mount Pleasant MI
>br>48804<br><br>Phone:=
>=C2=A0 989-644-3384<br>Cell:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 989-400-3764
><br><br>Email=
>:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
>target=3D"_blank">fries1ph@gm=
>ail.com</a><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <br>Web page:=C2=A0 <span style=
>=3D"font-size:11pt;line-height:110%;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span><a
>href=3D=
>"http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml"
>target=3D"_blank"><http://cmich.edu/=
>chsbs/x23516.xml</a>>=C2=A0 <span
>style=3D"font-size:11pt;line-height:11=
>0%;font-family:"Times New Roman"">[among 'emeritus
>faculty=
>9;]</span> <br><br>From early December 2012 to late April 2013<br>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
><p
>style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:normal"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
>=A0 </span>5751 N. Kolb Rd.</p><p
>style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:norma=
>l">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unit 28-102<br></p>
>
><p style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:normal"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
></s=
>pan><span></span>Tucson AZ 85750</p><p
>pan>style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:=
>normal">phone: 520-329-8420</p><p
>style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:norma=
>l">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cell: 989-400-3764<br> </p>
>
>
>
>
>
><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 <br> To join or leave this
>LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
><p>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a--
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 04:56:11 +0000
>From: "Stahlke, Herbert" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>--_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>I don't know that I've heard "observe" + complement infinitive, but
>there's=
>a toilet paper add on TV currently in which a bear cub says, "We all go,
>s=
>o why not enjoy to go." I've heard "enjoy" + infinitive before from
>colleg=
>e students, but it's not a part of my English. Is it, as it appears to
>me,=
>a generational change? In my variety of English, the infinitive cooccurs
>=
>more consistently in non-assertive clauses. This appears to be changing.
>
>Herb
>
>Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
>Emeritus Professor of English
>Ball State University
>Muncie, IN 47306
>[log in to unmask]
>________________________________
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[[log in to unmask]
>U] on behalf of Dick Veit [[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>
>Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>
>We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>
>Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>
>We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>*We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>
>I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>wo=
>uldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>surpris=
>ed by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>
>We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>to=
>cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>
>I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>
>We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>you=
>from =85
>
>After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>complement.=
>So my question is this:
>
>Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>widesprea=
>d use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>tech-spe=
>ak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the
>quoted=
>sentence?
>
>Dick
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>interface =
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>leave=
>the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><html dir=3D"ltr">
><head>
><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
>charset=3DWindows-1=
>252"> <style id=3D"owaParaStyle" type=3D"text/css"><!--P
>{margin-top:0;margin-bot= tom:0;}--></style> </head> <body ocsi=3D"0"
>fpstyle=3D"1"> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
>#000000;font-size: = 10pt;">I don't know that I've heard
>"observe"
>+ complement in= finitive, but there's a toilet paper add on TV
>currently in which a bear cu= b says, "We all go, so why not enjoy to
>go." I've heard "enjoy" + infinitive before from
>college students, but= it's not a part of my English. Is it, as it
>appears to me, a generat= ional change? In my variety of English,
>the
>infinitive cooccurs more = consistently in non-assertive clauses.
>This
>appears to be changing.<br> <br> Herb <br> <div><br> <div
>class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"> <div class=3D"PlainText">Herbert
>F.
>W. Stahlke, Ph.D.<br> Emeritus Professor of English<br> Ball State
>University<br> Muncie, IN 47306<br> [log in to unmask]</div>
></font></div> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color:
>#000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div style=3D"direction:
>ltr;" id=3D"divRpF803938"><font color=3D"#000000" = size=3D"2"
>face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teaching of Englis= h
>Grammar
>[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Dick Veit [dickveit@GMAIL=
>.COM]<br>
><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM<br> <b>To:</b>
>[log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> OBSERVE + complement
>infinitive<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a c=
>omplement infinitive:
><br>
></p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
></p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>dog=
>would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a c=
>omplement infinitive:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog di=
>sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter cate=
>gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>prosciutt=
>o.=94
><span> </span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in an
>updat=
>e notice for an iPad app:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this iss=
>ue
>to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of =
>error 108 when attempting playback.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first
>attempted to read it as an adverbial infinit= ive along these lines:</p>
><p
>class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the troub= le of observing this
>issue in order to prevent you from =85</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling
>it out, of course, I realized they me= ant it as a complement.<span>
></span>So my question is this:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive:<s=
>pan> </span>
>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b)
>in=
>widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely
>=
>a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p>
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br> </p> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>please visit the list's web interface =
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join
>or =
>leave the list" <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </p>
></div> </div> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
><p>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_--
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of ATEG Digest - 2 Mar 2013 to 3 Mar 2013 (#2013-19)
>********************************************************
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>interface at:
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>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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