Ok - good point - it is not dispositive - but using snippets of films in a classroom where those films were generated for the general entertainment market arguably has little to no impact on the market for those films. Of course, if you were to use snippets of an educational film (or a textbook) produced for the classroom, that would directly impact the market and clearly not be fair use.
Brian
________________________________
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk on behalf of David W. Opderbeck
Sent: Mon 2/6/2006 1:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
Categorizing it as "teaching" isn't dispositive. The courts have pretty much ignored that part of the statute, and focus primarily on the use's affect on the market for the work. If you think about it, this makes sense; otherwise, publishers would lose their copyrights in all their textbooks.
David W. Opderbeck
Assistant Professor of Business Law
Baruch College, City University of New York
(646) 312-3602
[log in to unmask]
"Halsey, Brian" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk" <[log in to unmask]>
02/06/2006 01:06 PM
Please respond to "Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk"
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Subject: Re: B-Law Films
I think I might use this as a research problem in class...
I think it does solve the problem - the statute says that "teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." Here, these movie clips are clearly used for educational purposes, and would be posted by educators on a secure website that is only accessible by educators for use as tools in the classroom (including creating multiple copies for classroom use). I don't think that the fact that it is easier for lots of us - "multiple copies for classroom use" - to get the clips from a secure website rather than by making copies ourselves is dispositive; and the point of fair use is that we can avoid having to clear the rights.
Third cent.
Brian
________________________________
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk on behalf of David W. Opderbeck
Sent: Mon 2/6/2006 12:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
I don't think making it "members only" solves the fair use problem. It's still available free to a decent sized universe of faculty, and the organization hasn't cleared any of the rights.
David W. Opderbeck
Assistant Professor of Business Law
Baruch College, City University of New York
(646) 312-3602
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M Hass <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk" <[log in to unmask]>
02/06/2006 12:55 PM
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Subject: Re: B-Law Films
That's where I meant - the members only portion.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fran Zollers" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
I, too, fear that posting these multiple clips on the public ALSB site for
all the world to see and download turns what otherwise is probaby fair use
into not fair use. Does it solve the problem to put the clips up on myALSB?
That's the members only section of the site. It would be like posting an
article on Blackboard or WebCT for our students--behind a password.
Fran Zollers
>>> [log in to unmask] 2/6/2006 12:16 PM >>>
If it isn't fair use, you'd also have to clear the actors, stuntmen, and
music: see MGM's licensing site here:
http://www.mgmstills.com/MainRoot.php3?location= (see also here:
http://www.reelclassics.com/Buy/licensing.htm#stills-clips) . Given all
the hurdles and transaction costs involved in negotiating these
clearances, I'd be there isn't much of a market for short film clips to
be used in classrooms by individual professors. The lack of a viable
market would weigh in favor of fair use. A central website through which
such clips are distributed, however, probably would fail a fair use test,
since one function of such an intermediary would be to reduce individual
faculty members' transaction costs by obtaining the requisite clearances
in advance (and as a practical matter, a gatekeeper such as this would be
easier to police).
So, the immediate result of this is that I'm turning Bill Shaw's name and
e-mail address over to the MPAA. Bill, I hope your 401K is funded so that
you can cover the litigation and settlement costs.
David W. Opderbeck
Assistant Professor of Business Law
Baruch College, City University of New York
(646) 312-3602
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"Petty, Ross" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk"
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Subject: Re: B-Law Films
I tend to agree with Ken, although the guidelines were negotiated and
may not be how a court would decide fair use. An important question is
how long are the clips and how central are they to the original work.
The greed is good speech by Michael Douglas is pretty key to the movie
Wall Street, but the contracts discussion over pool in My Cousin Vinnie
is more peripheral.
Since fair use also looks at the effect on the market for the original
good (would we all go out and buy these DVDs to use the clips?), it
might be safer to have a publisher take on this task and sell a single
DVD with all the clips we have been discussing after getting whatever
copyright approval might be necessary. Alternatively, a publisher's
secure website would allow us to pre-assign the clips or show them in
class.
Ross D. Petty
Professor of Marketing Law
Babson College
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Schneyer
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:29 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
Not sure it sounds like fair use to me. If one knows, a term or two in
advance, that one is going to use such clips, then I think the
Guidelines probably require that you seek permission. This is certainly
the case if one uses the clips over and over.
Ken Schneyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Halsey, Brian
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
Good idea - and I could certainly use these movie clips. Sounds like
"fair use" to me.
There's probably a way to convert the clips to DIVX or to compress them
in a way to make them manageable downloads too. We don't want to crash
the server!
Brian
________________________________
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk on behalf of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon 2/6/2006 10:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
Marsha: Great suggestion. Perhaps others with clips or films could post
them to the ALSB site copyright laws permitting.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: M Hass <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, February 6, 2006 9:14 am
Subject: Re: B-Law Films
> Why not post the disk contents on ALSB site for downloading by
> members?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LeCrone, Noel Blake" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:19 AM
> Subject: Re: B-Law Films
>
>
> I would really love to have that disk. Thanks in advance.
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk on behalf
> of Bill
> Shaw
> Sent: Sun 2/5/2006 6:16 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: B-Law Films
>
>
> Keith, I have 10 or so films (and triple that in scenes) from
> movies that
> I'd have put on a disk for you, or anyone, if you'd like. From
> the two you
> mention
> that are stale, I have 8-10 scenes. Actually, they can't really
> be stale
> unless you have students taking your course over and over again.
> First day,
> or
> second, I sometimes begin with Wall Street (Michael Douglas), and
> discuss
> the virtues of "greed." "Greed is good, it's right, it cuts
> through and
> clarifies
> the . . . {something, something, something} . . . and greed, mark
> my word,
> with save Teldar Paper, and that other malfunctioning corporation
> called the
> United States of America." It was an Oscar winner back in the
> early '90s,
> and, I'm told, the "greed" speech was tracked from Ivan Boesky's
> presentation
> to Stanford MBAs. That may just be a rumor. Anyway, I was known
> around the
> gym as the Boesky Professor of Business Ethics. * Film strips of
> 2-4
> minutes apiece that you may find useful from time to time, but
> never
> scheduled/syllabused in order to remain within the "fair use"
> provisions --
> Wall Street,
> The Insider, A Civil Action, Boiler Room, Other People's Money,
> Private
> Ryan, Philadelphia, Erin Brockavich, GlenGarry GlenRoss, Kate and
> Leopold, Repo Man. Some are sort of special interest - special
> occasion - feel good
> clips: Forest Gump, Hackers, Goodfellas, Jerry MaGuire, Half
> Baked. Also,
> a skydive (strictly to impress my grandson), but you need an 8
> page
> disclaimer to distribute beforehand. Bill
>
>
>
> At 02:24 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote:
>
>
> Colleagues,
>
> I occasionally have students in my Legal Environment class analyze
> business
> law and ethics issues in feature films. I have used The Insider in
> the past,
> but it has been used so often - in not only law classes, but also
> management, ethics, and others - that it has grown a bit stale for
> students
> and professor alike. A Civil Action is also beginning to show its
> wear. Does
> anyone out there have suggestions for other good films that raise
> business
> law issues?
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.
>
> Keith
>
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> Keith A. Maxwell
> Nat S. and Marian W. Rogers Professor
> Professor of Legal Studies and Ethics
> School of Business and Leadership
> University of Puget Sound
> Tacoma, WA 98416
> Office Phone: 253.879.3703
> www.ups.edu/faculty/maxwell/home.htm
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
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