Amplifying these problems with banks is the ever present D'Oench Duhme doctrine, which gives the FDIC special power to enforce notes without the usual evidentiary requirements if it takes over a failed bank.
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/5000-4300.html
Robert C. Bird
Associate Professor & Ackerman Scholar
Department of Marketing
University of Connecticut
email: [log in to unmask]
View my research on my SSRN Author page:
http://ssrn.com/author=56987
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ellis, Lizbeth
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: another banks are careless story (and by the way tellers make barely more than minimum wage)
Some years ago my husband (Michael Ellis) and I opened a checking account at a local bank. A few months later, I opened the statement to find checks that we had not written but were signed "Michael Ellis" (the old days - they sent the checks back) and I was really upset until I realized that we also had a bunch of deposits that we had not made.
Well, turns out that another "Michael Ellis" had opened an account after us, and when he ran out of the "starter checks" before his printed checks had arrived, he went back to the bank and asked for some more. They pulled up OUR account number, printed him some more starter checks (and deposit slips) and he was off to the races.
Oh, I long for the days when our local grocery store had a stack of "counter checks" for every local bank right next to the register (1970's) - when you went to pay, you just pulled a blank check from stack for your bank and wrote it out. No account numbers at all. Mary Anne (the teller) knew every signature in town.
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Virginia Maurer
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 2:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: lost Mortgage notes
Banks are careless. In 1980 I opened a checking account at the nearest bank.
I opened it as a joint account with my husband.
In about 2003 I was at the drive-thru window trying to cash a check (quaint,
yes) and the teller told me I could not cash a check because I was not on the account. Of course, I'd probably drawn or cashed 5000 checks since 1980.
I asked why they honored these checks if I was not a drawer on the account.
They weren't rightly sure.
I parked and went into the bank. The bank officer confirmed that my name was not on the signature card used to open the account. I requested the signature card. A couple of days later the bank found a facsimile of the card (it was not a negotiable instrument) in electronic records stored in Birmingham, Alabama and faxed it to the bank. Turns out I was thjee
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ellis, Lizbeth
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: lost Mortgage notes
I too have not followed the mortgage note issue closely, which is kind of odd because before I joined academia (22+ years ago), my practice was about 30% mortgage foreclosures (explaining perhaps why I was so happy to get out of private practice!).
Back in the day, my bank clients sold the paper under an agreement that upon default, the paper would be transferred (assigned) back to the original lender to act as agent/assignee for foreclosure. In many instances, the original lender bank kept actual physical possession of the original paper even when it was sold, and acted as the buyer's agent for collection purposes (the borrower was usually not even notified and knew nothing of the change in paper owner), and when it was necessary, for foreclosure. I guess those practices are ancient history.
For the life of me, I cannot remember whether the original documents were in the files that were sent "upstairs" to me or whether I worked from photocopies (or "Xeroxes" as we used to call them).
Liz
-----Original Message-----
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hiller, Janine
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 1:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: lost Mortgage notes
Hi,
While I am in Sweden I have not followed the mortgage note problems closely, so I hope this is on topic. BUT, before I left I believe that the problem was an electronic one that was connected to the credit default swaps--or at least with the vigorous trading of those notes. Those who ended up with the underlying credit instruments were so far removed from the transaction that the notes, signed electronically, were "lost" in electronic space.
Janine
________________________________________
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Virginia Maurer [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 9:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core WARNING: POLITICAL CONTENT & Somewhat of a Change in Topic
I am astounded at the behavior of foreclosing banks who regard the absence of a negotiable instrument as a "technicality". A technicality? They are foreclosing on someone's home and, worse, selling it to an unsuspecting buyer, and cannot produce evidence of the debt?
Can I run my business that way? Sue you on a note that I cannot produce, but assure the judge that it must exist somewhere and says what I say it says?
Think of the possibilities! All the more reason why business students need to know about good old fashioned negotiable instrument law. Who on earth LOST the notes?
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert D. Sprague
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core WARNING: POLITICAL CONTENT & Somewhat of a Change in Topic
Along the lines of Keith's comments, I'm interested if anyone has any favorite authors or articles on the subjects of corporatism and/or neoliberalism?
Thanks (and you can e-mail me privately at the address below if you prefer).
Bob
Robert Sprague
Associate Professor
University of Wyoming College of Business Department of Management & Marketing
1000 E. University Avenue, Dept. 3275 * Laramie, Wyoming 82071
Phone: 307-766-5670 * E-mail: [log in to unmask] * Website:
http://www.uwyo.edu/sprague
[cid:image001.jpg@01CB71CA.975343A0]<http://business.uwyo.edu/>
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Keith A Maxwell
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core WARNING: POLITICAL CONTENT
If the Congress changes hands, MBA's won't need to worry about what law might have to say about their actions. And ethics...who thinks that is a threat to them? Ask your deans.
Keith A. Maxwell, J.D.
Nat S. and Marian W. Rogers Professor (Emeritus) Professor Emeritus Legal Studies and Ethics in Business University of Puget Sound Tacoma, WA
Adjunct Professor of Business Law
Dixie State College
Saint George, UT
________________________________
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James Highsmith [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core
WOW, this thread is scary. So many approaches to minimize law and achieve very little. Our MBA program has a three-unit course called 'Ethical and Regulatory Environment of Business.' Thus law and ethics are integrated in one course..focused on public law, not private law topics (as contracts).
Frankly, I think MBA students need to gain this private law knowledge, if they don't have it, through a 'remedial' course. James ________________________________
From: "Connie Bagley" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:19:53 PM
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core
So far we've avoided that fate at Yale. I teach a course "Law for Executives" in our executive MBA program in healthcare. The students take that in addition to the course State & Society. I think tailoring the law class to the executives to make explicit its relevance is important. Our non-law colleagues might still try to kill the course but having strong support from the students can help. Best, Connie
Constance E. Bagley
Professor in the Practice of Law and Management YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT
135 Prospect Street
P.O. Box 208200
New Haven, CT 06520-8200
203.432.8398 (voice)
203.436.0630 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
Physical Office: 46 Hillhouse, Room 1
New Haven CT 06511
Assistant: Paula Blanchette
203.432.6018
[log in to unmask]
From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hara
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 2:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Half course in MBA Core
ALSBTALK:
What is "fraud"? Not that that question is in any way related to this thread, I just like to ponder that question on occasion.
At UNO we have an MBA and an Executive MBA. While we proudly tout the EMBA as unlike the vast majority of EMBA programs since UNO's is a genuine academic degree rather than merely extra hours of golf practice while answering softball questions about the importance of discounting future values. That said, very many UNO students (including some of the brighter EMBA students) distinguish the two degree programs by identifying one as the "real MBA".
The EMBA curriculum was redesigned and a core subject area was allocated merely one-half of a single 3 credit hour course. Surely you understand that one must be responsive to competitive pressures! Within a couple of years the responsible faculty of that core area requested another curriculum redesign that built upon the first by completely eliminating that truncated core area from the EMBA program.
Wanna guess who went to zero? The answer is below my signature box so that you can't cheat.
Michael
Professor Michael J. O'Hara, J.D., Ph.D.
Finance, Banking, & Law Department
College of Business Administration
Mammel Hall 228
University of Nebraska at Omaha
6708 Pine Street
Omaha NE 68182-0048
[log in to unmask]
(402) 554 - 2823 voice fax (402) 554 - 2680 http://cba.unomaha.edu/faculty/mohara/web/ohara.htm
Accounting.
Save yourself a pile of misery. Take one of two approaches. First, accept magnanimously the reduction in cost allocation and revenue generation implicit in this curriculum redesign decision but do not alter one iota the quantum of material delivered (i.e., law becomes the weed out course).
Sometimes the real world differs markedly from the ideal world, so sometimes you have to go 100% faster. Or, second, just opt out now. That is, respectfully thank the decision makers for their efforts at preserving as much as was viewed by them as feasible given other constraints they were obligated to accommodate, but assert that professionalism precludes you from accepting their offer in good conscious. Don't be surprised if they keep the 1/2 law course and stuff it with overtly easy "A" part-timers. You will be much happier watching the second option as compared with personally doing the second option.
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