I thought I was done, but this is a very interesting discussion. Fascinating to see the gap between reality and perception among such a highly educated group of people.
Sally asked if it is not already illegal to have unlocked guns in the home. The answers depends on state and local law, not federal law, as in my view it should. Here, in Georgia, it is most definitely NOT illegal to leave guns unlocked in the home. Locking the guns would vitiate their utility as a self-defense tool, at least as a defense against a suddenly-appearing intruder. Which is not to say that some (or many, who knows?) Georgia gun owners do not lock up at least some of their guns.
Yet, others believe they are safer having the guns not only unlocked but loaded (though probably unchambered). The theory goes that if everyone knows (or assumes) that every gun is loaded, no one will make the tragic mistake of acting as if one is unloaded.
I can hardly wait for the expressions of horror from the audience. ;-) Before you get too horrified, check the data. And keep in mind, a proposal to require guns to be locked up here would trigger a horrified (and perhaps horrifying) response, in some quarters.
Kurt S. Schulzke, JD, CPA, CFE
Associate Professor of Accounting & Business Law
Director - Law, Ethics & Regulation
Corporate Governance Center
Kennesaw State University
+ 1770-423-6379 (O)
+ 1404-861-5729 (C)
http://coles.kennesaw.edu/centers/corporate-governance/
My research: http://ssrn.com/author=804023
----- Original Message -----
From: "sgunz" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:41:44 PM
Subject: Re: Newtown
Alan:
I am puzzled about your first comment -- I find it hard to imagine that
any of these cases do not involve a mental health issue. Not sure if you
were meaning this case is different -- but do healthy people go out and
slaughter others? And Ginny, is it not illegal to have unlocked guns in
your home? If a child goes to a friend's home and somehow is killed
playing with a firearm (a not uncommon occurrence apparently), are not
the parents at least civilly liable assuming careless storage of a
firearm. I guess no criminal offence?
I am being cautious about discussing these issues. Things are different
here. Yet there are still terrible tragedies even with a very different
legal and cultural environment. We have just honoured the young women
who died at l' École Polytechnique -- 14 young female engineering
students killed on 6 December, 1989 because they were women engineering
students. Or the Fabricant killing when a faculty member killed 4
faculty colleagues and a departmental secretary because he had an
on-going dispute with them. Terrible things can happen everywhere.
Fortunately it is very rare here although we do get a large number of
illegal firearms coming over the border. But other systems do work
reasonably well. People are active hunters and target shooters etc here
despite the very different gun controls.
Sally
On 12/17/2012 3:28 PM, Strudler, Alan wrote:
> Ginny,
>
> You are probably right that there was a big mental illness issue here, which makes Lanza a hard case from which to generalize.
>
> You are probably also right that there is a big causation issue on video games and violence. That issue should make it hard to win a lawsuit. We as a society can still reasonably conclude that video games render kids callous to violence in ways that turn out to be quite horrible. I think that the issue is ripe for public deliberation. It should be on the table. Video game profits are not so sacred that the companies should be given the benefit of the doubt in their dealings with children.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:17 PM, "Maurer,Virginia G"<[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> And it is illegal to provide alcohol to minors. And, in some states, under some circumstances, personal liability follows the adverse consequences of providing alcohol to minors.
>>
>> Uhh. Video games? Big causation issue there.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Strudler, Alan [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:58 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>
>> Well, kids on booze is a smaller problem than kids on video games.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Kurt Schulzke<[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is a straw man in this forum because no one here has suggested it.
>>>
>>> Alan Strudler raises an interesting point about violent video games. What
>>> about alcohol, which kills, maims and sickens to death many more Americans
>>> (and American families) each year than do guns? If we are serious about
>>> regulating or eliminating what kills, surely alcohol should be at the top
>>> of our list.
>>>
>>> Kurt S. Schulzke, JD, CPA, CFE
>>> Associate Professor of Accounting& Business Law
>>> Director - Law, Ethics& Regulation
>>> Corporate Governance Center
>>> Kennesaw State University
>>> + 1770-423-6379 (O)
>>> + 1404-861-5729 (C)
>>> http://coles.kennesaw.edu/centers/corporate-governance/
>>> My research: http://ssrn.com/author=804023
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Allison
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:38 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> No straw man. Some do suggest that. I'm specifically talking about
>>> teachers, professors, and administrators.
>>>
>>> John R. Allison
>>> The Spence Centennial Professor of Business, and
>>> Professor of Intellectual Property
>>> McCombs School of Business
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kurt Schulzke
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 1:28 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> Ah. And now the straw men appear. I don't recall anyone even suggesting
>>> that everyone should be armed.
>>>
>>> Kurt S. Schulzke, JD, CPA, CFE
>>> Associate Professor of Accounting& Business Law Director - Law, Ethics&
>>> Regulation Corporate Governance Center Kennesaw State University
>>> + 1770-423-6379 (O)
>>> + 1404-861-5729 (C)
>>> http://coles.kennesaw.edu/centers/corporate-governance/
>>> My research: http://ssrn.com/author=804023
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Allison
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:23 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> Yes. Very few people can actually train and practice enough to be
>>> accurate enough with a handgun to really use it effectively for defense.
>>> Those who want to arm everybody are simply deluded.
>>>
>>> John R. Allison
>>> The Spence Centennial Professor of Business, and Professor of Intellectual
>>> Property McCombs School of Business University of Texas at Austin
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suzy Rogers
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:51 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> I can think of a lot which is wrong about this idea of arming teachers as
>>> a good way to deal with the problem, but aside from the obvious, do you
>>> really think in a time when a lot of teachers can't even get basic school
>>> supplies unless they buy them themselves, that the government would ever
>>> fund training and arming them?
>>>
>>> And take a look at your colleagues. Seriously, are you going to be happy
>>> with these people all toting heat??
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Kurt Schulzke
>>> [[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:41 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> Hi Dan,
>>>
>>> My heart, like yours, goes out to all affected by this terrible tragedy.
>>> It is so hard to deal with the pointless, violent passing of anyone, but
>>> especially innocent little children. It is also a natural tendency at
>>> times like these to respond emotionally, to try to do something, anything
>>> in an effort to prevent similar occurrences.
>>>
>>> In an effort to get more reliable information than that generally
>>> available through media sources, I had a long conversation yesterday with
>>> a SWAT team member who is responsible for coordinating the local response
>>> to events like that in Newtown.
>>>
>>> First, he noted that at this stage of the investigation, reliable
>>> information is too scant to support policy-making. He is waiting to read
>>> the official after-incident report, because what is filtered to the public
>>> by the media is most often inaccurate and always incomplete. For example,
>>> he has doubts about the reports that the gunman gained entrance to the
>>> school by shooting through a security door with an "assault rifle."
>>> Typical assault rifles (assuming a typical secure door) are incapable of
>>> inflicting that kind of damage quickly enough to get through such a door
>>> before law enforcement arrives. For that, one typically needs
>>> higher-caliber weapons and special-purpose armor-piercing ammunition.
>>>
>>> Second, however, in generic terms, he observed that TIME is the key
>>> variable in saving lives once this kind of thing begins. There is
>>> typically no way to negotiate with one who has resolved to begin this kind
>>> of killing spree. And there is no way for law enforcement to respond
>>> quickly enough to prevent multiple deaths once the shooting begins. No
>>> police force is capable of either preventing such killers from getting
>>> weapons or from inflicting mass casualties, no matter what kind of "gun
>>> control" laws are officially on the books. Thus, the best defense is a
>>> good offense: administrators and/or teachers should be armed and trained
>>> to respond with real firepower, on the spot.
>>>
>>> Finally, he noted that when he delivers this kind of advice to school
>>> administrators, the response is routinely a genuinely-motivated but
>>> too-often fatal mantra, "But our school is a gun-free zone." So,
>>> supposedly, were airliners until September 11, 2001.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For my part, until I see the after-incident report on Newtown, I plan to
>>> withhold judgment on the hows and whys of what occurred there and how to
>>> reduce the likelihood of it happening elsewhere. Now is a time for
>>> comforting those mourning the loss of friends and family.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Kurt S. Schulzke, JD, CPA, CFE
>>> Associate Professor of Accounting& Business Law Director - Law, Ethics&
>>> Regulation Corporate Governance Center Kennesaw State University
>>> + 1770-423-6379 (O)
>>> + 1404-861-5729 (C)
>>> http://coles.kennesaw.edu/centers/corporate-governance/
>>> My research: http://ssrn.com/author=804023
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Elaine Ingulli"<[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:45:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Newtown
>>>
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this link.
>>> I don't think the emotional impact of Newtown has much to do with your
>>> being a parent: I don't have any children (hence no grandchildren), but
>>> truthfully this hit me harder than any of the other horrific events of
>>> recent years. I, like, you, have not been able to come to grips with it,
>>> but have recognized my own reaction in intermittent welling up of tears.
>>> It's both very simply "horrible" and at the same time complex (how to take
>>> that meaningful action, etc.; I so value community--so how do I understand
>>> something that a seemingly strong "community" couldn't prevent?). But that
>>> value made me feel better, today, just seeing your words and listening to
>>> the link.
>>>
>>> Elaine Ingulli
>>>
>>> Professor of Business Law
>>> Local Negotiator, SFT
>>> Richard Stockton College of New Jersey
>>> (609)652-4304
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Academy of Legal Studies in Business (ALSB) Talk
>>> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Herron, Daniel J. Dr.
>>> [[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 12:09 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Newtown
>>>
>>> Dear ALSB'er's,
>>>
>>> As the ALSB Executive Secretary, I refrain often from commenting on
>>> ALSBTALK about any issue that is remotely political, contentious, or
>>> argumentative, even in the least degree possible. As a father of two, and
>>> grandfather of four, including my 6 year old first grader gradnson, Jack,
>>> I've been experiencing a fundamental shaking of my entire core being as
>>> soon as I heard, late Friday night, about the Newtown tragedy. I have
>>> been trying to put into coherent thoughts my own reaction. But, each time
>>> I go to that place in my mind, trying to comprehend this event, that place
>>> is a dark whole of oblivion that leads me to utter despair.
>>>
>>> I heard this long commentary by Joe Scarborough, conservative MSNBC
>>> commentator on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," and that commentary provided me with
>>> an articulation that I was unable to form myself. I offer it to you here:
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/msnbc-morning_joe/#50222624
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Dan Herron
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> Professor, Business Legal Studies
>>> Miami University
>>> Executive Secretary, Academy of Legal Studies in Business (www.alsb.org)
>>> Director, Miami University Mock Trial Program (www.miamimocktrial.org)
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