I can make 2-3:30 that day now, another meeting having been moved. Keith
On 1/30/12 11:37 AM, "Goodman, Eric" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I agree that a full conversation is going to take more than an hour, but
>let's take advantage of the time that we all seem to have, and begin at
>2:00 pm on the 7th?
>
>I'd certainly invite perspectives from adjuncts. I'm of mixed minds about
>students but if others would like to open it that widely, sure.
>
>On 1/30/12 9:54 AM, "Cheek, Christopher F. Dr." <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>How widely do we spread this conversation? For example, if we are working
>>on the wiki, ought we to invite perspectives / comments from adjuncts??
>>Ought we to solicit feedback / conversation from Graduate Students?
>>Undergraduate Students?
>>
>>
>>x
>>
>>
>>cris
>>
>>
>>On Jan 30, 2012, at 9:45 AM, cris cheek wrote:
>>
>>> okay . i must boil my head for teaching . but wiki up!
>>>
>>> cris
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2012, at 9:37 AM, Schloss, David Mr. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear cris,
>>>>
>>>> Not to ruin your supposition about minorities of one, or to ruin all
>>>>our Tuesday afternoons, I don't know how long we'll need, but confining
>>>>it to an hour is most likely not nearly enough, I agree.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of cris cheek
>>>>[[log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:02 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Runaway Bender
>>>>
>>>> and i am serious in saying that i think we need more than an hour in
>>>>order to really get down into conversation in a relaxed and open way
>>>>
>>>> i know i'll probably be in a minority of one but . . an hour is not
>>>>long enough
>>>>
>>>> c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 30, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Luongo, Margaret M. Ms. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We haven't made a decision about time yet--not everyone has
>>>>>responded.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Margaret Luongo
>>>>> Associate Professor, Creative Writing
>>>>> Department of English
>>>>> 356 Bachelor Hall
>>>>> Oxford, OH 45056
>>>>> 513-529-5221
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>>[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Schloss, David Mr.
>>>>>[[log in to unmask]]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 7:40 AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Runaway Bender
>>>>>
>>>>> Runaway Benders,
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric's points here, as always, are well taken.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there perhaps another, even better time we might schedule so as to
>>>>>be inclusive of everyone in CW from all campuses. We decided
>>>>>anecdotally rather than in a formal way with grid. Perhaps everyone
>>>>>planning to attend has already made plans to be able to do so, and
>>>>>it's hard to consider changing now...
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>>[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Melbye, Eric Dr.
>>>>>[[log in to unmask]]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 1:15 AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Runaway Bender
>>>>>
>>>>> CW Colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be teaching at this time, so cannot attend the retreat,
>>>>>unfortunately. But if I understand the goal of this runaway bender
>>>>>correctly‹to discuss a collective vision for the dept/program‹then
>>>>>it¹s of great importance to me personally, as well as to the creative
>>>>>writing "program" on the regionals, such as it is. If this retreat's
>>>>>purpose is truly to define a collective vision for the future of MU's
>>>>>Creative Writing Department, I would hope it would keep in mind the
>>>>>presence and especially the potential of Creative Writing on the
>>>>>regional campuses as well as at Oxford.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gempesaw¹s plan to create a new academic division on the regionals
>>>>>may complicate the CW Dept¹s vision for the future. Currently, the CW
>>>>>program on the regionals serves as a gateway to the CW degree at
>>>>>Oxford, or as a resource for (primarily Education major) students who
>>>>>need course credit. Gempesaw¹s plan, or at least my limited
>>>>>understanding of it, could possibly alter the landscape of English
>>>>>course offerings on the regionals significantly, including our ability
>>>>>to offer CW courses on the regionals. But I¹m not writing now to lobby
>>>>>against Gempesaw¹s plan‹I don¹t know enough about it. I¹m only
>>>>>mentioning it because it could, or maybe should, impact the
>>>>>discussions at the CW retreat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of Gempesaw¹s plans, it seems to me that the regional
>>>>>campuses could be more productively ³exploited² by the CW Dept than
>>>>>they currently are. I think it's important for CW to attempt to stay
>>>>>ahead of the curve as much as possible. If the CW Dept is retreating
>>>>>in order to revision and reposition itself for future success, I'd
>>>>>humbly suggest thinking broad and big. What do we want CW to be/do
>>>>>university-wide? How might the CW Dept leverage current resources to
>>>>>situate the CW Dept in a position of strength for the long term across
>>>>>all campuses?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As one quick example, just off the top of my head: On the
>>>>>regionals‹or at least at MUM‹I sense an increasingly strong push for
>>>>>online courses and e-learning in general. Could that be something for
>>>>>the CW Dept to plan ahead for? In addition: What new pedagogies are
>>>>>out there that we might explore to keep our program as up-to-date as
>>>>>possible? (Maybe there are hallway discussions of CW pedagogy, but why
>>>>>isn¹t there a central, easily accessible site online where such
>>>>>discussions take place?) What literary genres are gaining ground at
>>>>>other universities that we ought to consider offering as courses in
>>>>>order to keep pace, or to move ahead of them? What current or
>>>>>potential courses could be offered across the campuses in order to
>>>>>further the ³reach² of CW university-wide? Thinking even bigger, are
>>>>>there degree offerings that we could create‹such as a PhD in CW
>>>>>Pedagogy, for example‹that might leverage the strengths/resources of
>>>>>faculty across the campuses?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Faculty Assembly at MUM is meeting soon to discuss a draft of a
>>>>>letter to the provost and regional dean regarding MUM faculty¹s
>>>>>concerns over the plan to create a new school/division on the regional
>>>>>campuses. Personally, one thing I love about this letter is how
>>>>>strongly it emphasizes the ideal that we are One University, not
>>>>>several scattered campuses related in name only. At this point, it
>>>>>doesn¹t appear to me that the plan for a new academic school/division
>>>>>on the regionals is open to discussion. All we can do is figure out
>>>>>how to make it work to our advantage, although we know very little
>>>>>about the plan itself. Consequently, as the CW Dept meets to formulate
>>>>>a vision for its future, I strongly urge everyone involved in the
>>>>>discussion to keep the entire university in mind. As an idealist, I
>>>>>like to think there are opportunities for CW growth, here, if plans
>>>>>are made with wise forethought.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric
>>>>> _______________________________
>>>>> Eric Melbye
>>>>> Associate Professor, English/Creative Writing
>>>>> Miami University Middletown
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tuma, Keith W.
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:48 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Runaway Bender
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2:30-3:30 works for me on Feb 7, and I'd like to be a part of this
>>>>>
>>>>> discussion if you all don't mind, but please start earlier without
>>>>>me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David, for what it's worth the RCM budget model being discussed (with
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>> committee report and open forums to follow this spring; then a shadow
>>>>>
>>>>> budget next year with tweaking to follow examination of the results
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>> introduction the year after next) will count as revenue for the
>>>>>division
>>>>>
>>>>> (= the cost center) courses taught by instructors in CAS and taken by
>>>>>
>>>>> students with a major in FSB or other divisions. No "leeching off us"
>>>>>
>>>>> allowed then. The finer points concerning how revenue will be
>>>>>calculated
>>>>>
>>>>> (the weighting of upper division courses, of numbers of majors as
>>>>>well as
>>>>>
>>>>> hours of instruction since maintaining a major means other costs) are
>>>>>
>>>>> still under discussion, and the committee charged with presenting
>>>>>
>>>>> recommendations is only beginning discussion of the cost side.I could
>>>>>
>>>>> summarize some of the conversations to date since I hear about them
>>>>>from a
>>>>>
>>>>> chair on the committee, but it's better to wait until more is settled
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>> a report is presented for public discussion. (I'm not sure at this
>>>>>point
>>>>>
>>>>> how ICA will fit in the picture, but you can be sure that I am
>>>>>interested
>>>>>
>>>>> in that question.) I can also assure you that the dean is working
>>>>>hard to
>>>>>
>>>>> protect the interests of CAS and liberal education--and the English
>>>>>
>>>>> Department. She'll be a strong voice in the Council of Academic Deans
>>>>>as
>>>>>
>>>>> the committee's recommendations are reviewed there. Which is not to
>>>>>say
>>>>>
>>>>> that the department shouldn't be thinking about its future--its
>>>>>curriculum
>>>>>
>>>>> and enrollments, its student recruitment and its pr and various other
>>>>>
>>>>> matters. The Literature faculty is off to a promising start following
>>>>>
>>>>> their retreat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/28/12 3:53 PM, "Cheek, Christopher F. Dr." <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tues 7th at 2 is good for me
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> x
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> c
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2012, at 3:30 PM, Schloss, David Mr. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tues Feb 7 at 32: I believe a very important meeting I have
>>>>>>>scheduled
>>>>>
>>>>>>> in Cinti will be over in time for me to make that, much as I hate
>>>>>
>>>>>>> driving in extra to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope it's not all just fanciful thinking that comes to nothing
>>>>>
>>>>>>> practical: I think we need to assess the realities and fight for
>>>>>>>what we
>>>>>
>>>>>>> can agree on about what we need and can really get. Visions of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> future are moot without any practical support for them in hiring,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> assistantships, etc, I believe. I hope Dean Callahan will really
>>>>>>>support
>>>>>
>>>>>>> English and Liberal Arts against Business-model running of this
>>>>>>>place by
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Provosts, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other colleges at MU are leeching off us for coverage of things
>>>>>
>>>>>>> they brag about, but offer no trickle down, even (esp Business) to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> support this comparatively sweat shop labor, partly on their
>>>>>>>behalf, or
>>>>>
>>>>>>> at least to their benefit. We also support the athletic dept's
>>>>>>>losses of
>>>>>
>>>>>>> $14/year. Until academics and a liberal education are restored to
>>>>>>>some
>>>>>
>>>>>>> respected core in Miami's mission for itself, any fantasies for the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> future of the dept will remain mostly fantasies, or conducted on
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> paradigm of what we don't have to jettison over the side of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> lifeboat. I prefer to get off (as I've said before) this Raft of
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Medusa. Expect further erosion of Literature at the expense of
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "practical" money-making programs in the future. The way of all
>>>>>>>liberal
>>>>>
>>>>>>> arts schools...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> For openers,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Goodman, Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [[log in to unmask]]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 3:17 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Runaway Bender
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about Tuesday Feb 7th at 2 pm?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Wagner, Cathy"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:05:11 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of Eric's dates below (I think his was the most recent message --
>>>>>>>David
>>>>>
>>>>>>> must not have seen that cris can't make the 6th) I can make
>>>>>>>Tuesday, Jan
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 31 or Tuesday, Feb 7, at these times: 11am-12pm, 2-3:30pm. I can
>>>>>>>also
>>>>>
>>>>>>> arrange a sitter and we can meet at 6pm or so on one of those two
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tuesday evenings, though if possible I'd rather not because I
>>>>>>>travel out
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the next day.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, those are the only dates I can make, it's a crazy Feb. I
>>>>>>>will
>>>>>
>>>>>>> understand if I have to be left out of this one, though I'd very
>>>>>>>much
>>>>>
>>>>>>> like to be there.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cathy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Goodman, Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can do Tues or Wednesday this coming week
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tuesday-Thursday (7-9)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tuesday-Sunday 14-19th.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It might be good to try to finish our Runaway before the second
>>>>>
>>>>>>> department meeting about this, on the 15th.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Cheek, Christopher F. Dr."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:37:28 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mondays i teach from 1 through 6.45
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> i CAN do Tuesday through Sunday this coming week (Jan 31st - Fen
>>>>>>>5th)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> and Tuesday through Thursday the following week (7-9) and Tuesday
>>>>>
>>>>>>> through Sunday the week after that (14th-19th).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm happy to break into the weekends if need be.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I DO think that we need an open conversation to hear the
>>>>>>>out-of-the-box
>>>>>
>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>
>>>>>>> and then we will probably almost all agree to discount such
>>>>>>>thinking .
>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think we
>>>>>
>>>>>>> need to do such thinking and to share such thoughts
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> x
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> cris
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Goodman, Eric wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about Monday the 6th? I don't think this will take us very
>>>>>>>long.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe 1-2 hours. Could be my house or a bar.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Cheek, Christopher F. Dr."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:29:31 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will be at Interrupt in Providence . sorry
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://literalart.net/schedule/
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> x
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> cris
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Goodman, Eric wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay. So how about anytime Friday the 10th or Saturday the 11th?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's share preferences for our Runaway Bender.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/28/12 2:00 PM, "Luongo, Margaret M. Ms."
>>>>>
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about "bender" or "Lost Weekend"?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Margaret Luongo
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Associate Professor, Creative Writing
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Department of English
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 356 Bachelor Hall
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oxford, OH 45056
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 513-529-5221<tel:513-529-5221>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Miami University Creative Writing Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
>>>>>>>On
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Behalf Of cris cheek [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:22 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> i like the sound of that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2012, at 7:23 PM, Goodman, Eric wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't we call it a Runaway?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Cheek, Christopher F. Dr."
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>U
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mai
>>>>>>>l
>>>>>>>to:M
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:15:41 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Faculty
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mai
>>>>>>>l
>>>>>>>to:M
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> HI,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> i hesitate to mention the dreaded word retreat
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think we ought to be having one.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> cris
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catherine Wagner
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Associate Professor of English
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assistant Director, Literary London Program
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Miami University
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 314 Bachelor Hall
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oxford OH 45056
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 513-529-3828 (my office)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 513-529-5221 (main office)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 513-529-1392 fax
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Office hours: 2:15-3:15pm Tu-Th, 1:45-2:45 W
|
