Johann & Craig,
I don't think it's necessary to tell the WPA list members about the
value of grammar. Most of them were originally literature majors, and
they got into running writing programs because that's where the jobs
are. Some switched to rhet/comp for their PhDs, but others didn't. In
any case, most would have had considerable experience in analyzing
literature in various ways, including grammatically.
And, as former lit. people, they often have a deep interest in style,
sometimes to the point of trying to impose literary standards on
nonliterary writing, i.e., composition. Those of you familiar with
the history of rhetoric will remember that there was a long history
of overemphasizing style in the teaching of rhetoric.
For teachers who want to teach something about writing with better
style (and most of us do), the question is how to go about it. One
answer is to begin with grammar, on the grounds that much about style
can be explained in grammatical terms. However, they may forget that
teaching style through grammar faces the same old, familiar problems
of teaching correctness through grammar. Namely, students can't seem
to learn enough grammar to be able to apply it.
There are, as you know, several approaches to teaching style that do
not require a knowledge of grammar (although it might be helpful).
These include sentence combining, sentence imitation, Joe Williams'
_Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace_, and such techniques.
However, the lure of grammar is strong, so someone has to step in
occasionally and remind folks about the facts of life.
Bill
>Craig,
>
>Could you tell us a little more about your grammatical analysis paper that
>students do in place of the final?
>
>Diane
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig Hancock" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:14 AM
>Subject: Re: Competence, performance & grammaticality
>
>
>Johanna,
> It's nice to have an idea so well echoed. For those of us not aware
>of the Mick Short book, is it recent? Easily available? Who's the
>publisher?
> Many of my grammar students are now handing in grammatical analysis
>papers as one option for their final, and it's neat to see how much can
>happen with even a single semester's preparation. Their options are
>Robert Frost's "Acquainted With the Night" or the first two paragraphs
>of James Baldwin's essay on "The Creative Process." When done well, a
>close look at how it means brings us deeply into the heart of what it
>means, since the meaning is certainly built in and through the grammar.
> If Bill wants to copy posts to another list, he has my permission.
> If these people are genuinely interested in deepening their
>understanding of the subject and not simply trying to wish it away,
>perhaps we can set up a conversation.
>
>Craig
>
>Johanna Rubba wrote:
>
>> Those who criticize ATEG for its claims need to define what they mean
>> by 'grammar', as a few posters have pointed out. I think these
>> critics have in mind the traditional-grammar curriculum, with its
>> focus on teaching rules out of context and terminology for its own sake.
>>
>> Anyone who does not understand the value of knowing
>> grammar/linguistics to understanding style and literature should read
>> an interesting book by Mick Short titled "Exploring the Language of
>> Poems, Plays, and Prose". There is a very nice chapter on point of
>> view, for example. Point of view is set up by very specific linguistic
>> choices. I'd like to see anyone explain e. e. cummings' poem "anybody
>> lived in a pretty how town" without talking about parts of speech and
>> complementation possiblities. You can only get so far with lay
>> language such as "this word doesn't go with that one because it
>> doesn't make sense". Pretending grammar isn't important also means
>> impoverishing the understanding of how breaking grammatical rules is
> > used to such great effect in many genres of writing, esp. poetry.
>>
>> Broadly enough defined, as Craig Hancock has said, understanding
>> grammar means understanding how language communicates one thought
>> rather than another. How the words are arranged with respect to each
>> other is essential to conveying meaning.
>>
>> Bill, how about posting our replies to your other list???
>>
>> Johanna
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Johanna Rubba Associate Professor, Linguistics
>> English Department, California Polytechnic State University
>> One Grand Avenue * San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
>> Tel. (805)-756-2184 * Fax: (805)-756-6374 * Dept. Phone. 756-2596
>> * E-mail: [log in to unmask] * Home page:
>> http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--
William J. McCleary
Livonia, NY
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
