Johanna,

My ninth graders like e.e. cummings because he's allowed to break the rules.
But my kids need to know what the rules are before I allow them to be
broken.

Teresa
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Johanna Rubba" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Competence, performance & grammaticality


Those who criticize ATEG for its claims need to define what they mean by
  'grammar', as a few posters have pointed out. I think these critics
have in mind the traditional-grammar curriculum, with its focus on
teaching rules out of context and terminology for its own sake.

Anyone who does not understand the value of knowing grammar/linguistics
to understanding style and literature should read an interesting book by
Mick Short titled "Exploring the Language of Poems, Plays, and Prose".
There is a very nice chapter on point of view, for example. Point of
view is set up by very specific linguistic choices. I'd like to see
anyone explain e. e. cummings' poem "anybody lived in a pretty how town"
without talking about parts of speech and complementation possiblities.
You can only get so far with lay language such as "this word doesn't go
with that one because it doesn't make sense". Pretending grammar isn't
important also means impoverishing the understanding of how breaking
grammatical rules is used to such great effect in many genres of
writing, esp. poetry.

Broadly enough defined, as Craig Hancock has said, understanding grammar
means understanding how language communicates one thought rather than
another. How the words are arranged with respect to each other is
essential to conveying meaning.

Bill, how about posting our replies to your other list???

Johanna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanna Rubba   Associate Professor, Linguistics
English Department, California Polytechnic State University
One Grand Avenue  • San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
Tel. (805)-756-2184  •  Fax: (805)-756-6374 • Dept. Phone.  756-2596
• E-mail: [log in to unmask] •      Home page:
http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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