Just to give another perspective, here's what my daughter (who's in second 
grade in France) has been doing this year:

First they learnt about personal pronouns and verbs, then about nouns 
(common nouns and proper nouns), and adjectives.
They also know the term 'subject', but I don't know how far they went with it.

The other day, I heard one of my daughter's friends say (they were working 
on a kind of poster they wanted to show other friends):
'Oh, we forgot the determiner', and indeed a 'le' (the) was missing!! I 
haven't seen the term 'determiner' in my daughter's notebook (where all the 
important rules are copied down), but obviously the teacher must have 
mentioned it. I asked my daughter later but she didn't seem to be very 
clear as to what it really meant.

Of course all of this is necessary because they're learning how to spell 
and you can't learn French spelling without knowing some grammar (you can't 
use pronunciation because grammatical endings are mostly not pronounced). 
But in any case it shows that second graders can be taught to recognize 
nouns, verbs, pronouns and adjectives, at least in the kinds of sentences 
they are expected to write at that level.

I am told that they don' t do much grammar in later grades (high school 
especially), but I still think it's a promising beginning.

Marie-Pierre Jouannaud
France


A 10:13 12/05/2006 -0500, vous avez écrit :
>Dan,
>
>Here is my answer to your question.  Of course, 6th graders can handle
>the "abstract nature" of grammar.
>
>You can demonstrate this very easily.  Do an exercise with Mad Libs.
>I suspect that students will get most of the word forms correct for any
>one blank.  If that is the case, then it suggests they know something
>about word categories.
>
>You can also give students pairs of sentences: one standard and one not
>a possible sentence.  Again, I suspect they will be able to chose the
>correct sentence.
>
>Then give them pairs of sentences: one standard and one with an obvious
>non-standard form (himself -- hisself) (I saw -- I seen) (She and I
>went -- Her and me went) etc.  Ask students to figure out how they are
>different. Would a teacher say one versus would X say the other.  Again,
>I suspect they will be able to talk about the differences.
>
>Such exercises can lead to forming yes/no questions and tag questions
>from declarative sentences.  These exercises can lead to discussion of
>what is the grammatical subject and the tensed form such sentences.
>
>Several days ago, I was teaching some 10-11 year old non-native speakers
>of English.  I was able to have them make judgements about various pairs
>(one grammatical -- one ungrammatical) of English sentences.  They could
>do it, so I am sure native speakers can.
>
>And, you might also want to consider nonsense English.  Jabberwocky or
>Dr. Seuess is good.  Have the students answer questions about who is
>doing what to whom.  Answer to those questions reveal subject,
>predicates, object, etc.  Also, such questions reveal they can identify
>nouns, verbs, etc.
>
>I have not taught 6th graders, but Mad Libs are written for such an age
>group.  I am confident that you can come up with other exercises that
>can demonstrate to anyone of your colleagues that such kids can made
>judgments about grammar.  If you can, it reveals  that they are capable
>of handling the "abstract nature" of grammar.
>
>It is up to us as teachers to design exercises that tap into their
>knowledge of grammar.  I hope this helps.
>
>Bob Yates
>Central Missouri State University
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 05/11/06 1:32 PM >>>
>I have been a passive member of this Listserv for some time, and I
>suspect this topic has been covered before, but I could use a little
>information. If only I had kept my old emails. I work in an elementary
>school where a sixth grade language arts teacher recently told me that
>she does not believe her students are able to handle the abstract nature
>of grammar. My suspicion is that she just doesn't want to teach grammar.
>Is there something I could lean on--research, position statement,
>anything--to support my belief that she is wrong? There is a larger
>grammar conversation on the horizon and I would like to know all that I
>can about when formal grammar instruction might be introduced.
>
>Thanks for any help you can offer.
>
>
>Dan Spector
>
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