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ARCHIVES  June 2006, Week 3

ARCHIVES June 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Archival Education

From:

R L <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

R L <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:13:34 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (238 lines)

First of all, Thank You for the ones who replied to my message. Somehow, you have opened up my mind. Well, I guess, I'm just frustrated that I can't move forward right "now." To be a head archivist. I understand that it takes time. There is just so much to consider...the educational fees are the most frustrating. 

But really, Thank You!


-Rona
Collections Assistant


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maxwell, Daryl A" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Archival Education
> Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:18 -0700
> 
> 
> I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest and , like
> others, had not planned on jumping into the discussion.  However, I felt
> like I had to address the comments in this posting.
> 
> Archivist is, as several people have already pointed out, a professional
> title.  Among other things necessary to call yourself a professional is to
> have studied in the accepted fields of study and graduated with an advanced
> degree.  There is NO substitution for this step.  No amount of experience,
> reading, internships or attending workshops is a viable substitution.
> 
> Other professionals, Doctors, Lawyers, etc, require years of advanced
> education to enter the profession, yet no one seems to question this.  In
> addition, no ever claims "well, I've been working in a hospital for 15
> years, so that makes me a Doctor."  Working in a hospital doesn't make you a
> Doctor and working in an Archive DOES NOT make you an Archivist.  Only the
> proper education makes you an Archivist.
> 
> I myself have BA & BS degrees in my areas of expertise, a MLIS with an
> Archival Administration emphasis, and a certificate in Collections
> Management, all of which have been invaluable to me in my career.
> 
> I'm actually pleased to hear that more companies/institutions are holding
> out for degreed professionals because that indicates that they are beginning
> to take our field seriously.  And isn't that what we all want?  In addition,
> do you want to work for a company/institution that thinks that the work that
> you do can be done by someone without the educational background?  All that
> really indicates is a lack of value to what a professional brings to the
> position.
> 
> Daryl A. Maxwell
> Collections Specialist
> Walt Disney Feature Animation
> Animation Research Library
> 
> phone -- 818-544-4163
> tie-line -- 8223-4163
> fax -- 818-544-4192
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/16/06 3:20 PM, "R L" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > I might be out of place for this discussion since I have not taken the MLS
> > yet. But I think it's unfair that a lot of the jobs strictly require that
> > applicants must have already received an MLS degree, because it blocks people
> > like me who are hard-working and have gained valuable archival and
> > preservation experiences from internships, workshops, and 
> > previous employment.
> > I would like to work in a better organization and I believe I have what it
> > takes. Unfortunately, there are so many jobs that I've already passed since
> > I'm not qualified for it merely because I don't have the Master's diploma.
> > Don't get me wrong, I am pro education and I am now thinking of getting the
> > degree since it's a "must" in this field, but I just think it's a little
> > unfair that people like me aren't given the chance to develop in prestigious
> > places just because you don't have the proper degree.
> >
> > I hope I'm wrong. Still trying.
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: Archival Education
> >> Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:00:31 -0400
> >>
> >>
> >> The question of education vs. experience raises (at least to me)
> >> this question: How many of you (archivists, librarians, et al.) had
> >> experience in archives and/or libraries BEFORE your formal training?
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Richard Cox <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Sent: Jun 16, 2006 3:40 PM
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Archival Education
> >>>
> >>> Beth Moser writes, ³I don't think that there's a right way to go
> >>> about becoming an archivist -- whether it's from a graduate
> >>> history perspective or a MLS perspective. This has long been a
> >>> debate in the archival world.²  John Erdmann writes, ³I wonder,
> >>> how did archivists and librarians ever got along before requiring
> >>> advanced degrees and/or certifications?  Are the respective
> >>> fields better for it?  I have talked to so many librarians who
> >>> have told me that their experience in library school was
> >>> virtually worthless.  Many have told me that the first job
> >>> offered the best training.²  Erdmann, in a subsequent message,
> >>> writes: ³Must that education and training come in the form of
> >>> advanced degrees at expensive universities, or could it come from
> >>> the within the work environment, study on one's own, and at
> >>> conferences?²
> >>>
> >>> There is a right way to become an archivist and not everything
> >>> can be learned on the job.  There is a knowledge to our field (if
> >>> there is not, then we are not a discipline) and there is a need
> >>> for education (different from training).  As two recent observers
> >>> about higher education have noted, ³To succeed in education is
> >>> not to succeed in what one sets out to do, or even to succeed in
> >>> doing whatever is within the realm of possibility; success means
> >>> to succeed in doing something worth doing.² (James Engell and
> >>> Anthony Dangerfield, Saving Higher Education in the Age of Money
> >>> [Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 2005], p. 128]
> >>> We need education, not merely apprenticeship, credentialing,
> >>> practical information, etc., because the archival mission is
> >>> important to society (and, actually, there is quite a range to
> >>> salaries for such positions).
> >>>
> >>> Leon Miller writes, ³In other words, your title, your degrees,
> >>> where you got your training and experience, are all pretty much
> >>> crap. The archival profession needs to do a far, far better job
> >>> of making the point that regardless of someone¹s title, a person
> >>> responsible for archival collections had damn well better be an
> >>> archivist, had better have a thorough professional-level
> >>> understanding of archival theory and practice (which, in the US
> >>> today, usually means an MLS with a minimum of twelve semester
> >>> credit hours in areas defined as core archival knowledge followed
> >>> by archival certification within a year or two of graduation,
> >>> although that is not quite yet the only route) and had better be
> >>> able to apply archival theory and practice to their work.²  Yes,
> >>> Leon is correct.  It is sad that those who complain about salary
> >>> and recognition also are usually the ones who lament the need for
> >>> real education.  Graduate archival education has changed quite a
> >>> bit for the better over the past!
> >>>  few de
> >>> cades, and there are many programs far exceeding what Leon
> >>> describes in his message.  Unfortunately, the profession
> >>> generally seems ignorant of what this education represents and
> >>> less than interested in arguing for it to be even better than it
> >>> is.  No, you can¹t learn all you need to know on the job or by
> >>> reading quietly at home a few basic manuals.  Even to suggest
> >>> this is to reflect why a stronger foundational education is
> >>> needed.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Richard J. Cox
> >>> Professor
> >>> Department of Library and Information Sciences
> >>> School of Information Sciences
> >>> University of Pittsburgh
> >>> Editor, Records & Information Management Report
> >>> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
> >>> Voice:  412-624-3245
> >>> FAX:    412-648-7001
> >>> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >>> homepage: http://www2.sis.pitt.edu/%7Ercox/
> >>>
> >>> "What we would like to do is change the world - to make it a
> >>> little simpler for people to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves
> >>> as God intended for them to do. And we can change the world: we
> >>> can work for the oasis, the little cell of joy and peace in a
> >>> harried world.  We can throw our pebble in the pond and be
> >>> confident that its ever widening circle will reach around the
> >>> world." - Dorothy Day A posting from the Archives & Archivists
> >>> LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists,
> >>> www.archivists.org.
> >>> For the terms of participation, please refer to
> >>> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
> >>>      In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
> >>>                    *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES
> >>> To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
> >>>
> >>> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
> >>>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html
> >>>
> >>> Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
> >>
> >> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by
> >> the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
> >> For the terms of participation, please refer to
> >> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
> >>        In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
> >>                      *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES
> >> To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
> >>       http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html
> >>
> >> Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >>
> >
> 
> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by 
> the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
> For the terms of participation, please refer to 
> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
>        In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
>                      *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES
> To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
> 
> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
>       http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html
> 
> Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>

>


-- 
_______________________________________________

Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number.  -Lycos Yellow Pages

http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10

A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
      In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
                    *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES
To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]

Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html

Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>

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September 1993, Week 3
September 1993, Week 2
September 1993, Week 1
August 1993, Week 5
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August 1993, Week 1
July 1993, Week 5
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July 1993, Week 1
June 1993, Week 5
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June 1993, Week 3
June 1993, Week 2
June 1993, Week 1
May 1993, Week 5
May 1993, Week 4
May 1993, Week 3
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May 1993, Week 1
April 1993

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