LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARCHIVES Archives


ARCHIVES Archives

ARCHIVES Archives


ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARCHIVES Home

ARCHIVES Home

ARCHIVES  July 2006, Week 4

ARCHIVES July 2006, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Copyright status of public records [was Digitization of microforms]

From:

"Chris M. Garmire" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Chris M. Garmire

Date:

Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:03:19 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (157 lines)

 
I wish I had the original post, but I will have to use what Peter used
in his post, namely, "Recorded public records or public records in the
US have no copyrights!!

As far as a constitutional analysis, as a first impression, I would
hardly come to such a quick conclusion as to say that Grantor/Grantee
indexes fall under state copyright protection.  Pre-emption is clearly
an issue that you would have to deal with as well.  Even if you decide
that 105 does not pre-empt state law, it's still an issue that must be
discussed.  

"I normally avoid the discussion of copyright law as to me it is a
mystery wrapped in an enigma.  

Nevertheless, I am compelled to note that the Texas State Legislature
maintains that public information may be copyrighted.  Specifically
Section 2054.052(e) of the Government Code provides that the Department
of Information Resources may:

	(e)  The department may:

		(1)  acquire, apply for, register, secure, hold,
protect, and renew under the laws of the State of Texas, the United
States, any state in the United States, or any nation:
			
			(B)  a copyright for an original work of
authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or
later developed, from which it can be perceived, reproduced, or
otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or
device; "

From what I could tell from my reading of California State Copyright
Law, the California State Legislature takes a radically different
approach.  California Copyright Law extends protection to some works not
fixed in any tangible medium of expression.  The view of the legislature
is that any state protection mirroring the federal statute, like Texas,
would be preempted. 

The key question turns on the applicability of 105 to the states.  A
good example would be the 14th Amendment. 
The constitution is silent about the applicability of the 1st amendment
to the states.  Yet, the courts have held it is incorporated through the
14th amendment and any contrary provision in state statutes that limits
such protections is void. The states, however, are allowed to grant
additional protections if they see fit.  This is basically what the
state of California has done with state copyright law.  

"In his response to my post, Chris Garmire suggested that the
correspondent who indicated that "recorded public records or public
records in the US have no copyrights" was correct, and that I was wrong
to refute this.  I hate to argue with an IP lawyer (especially since I
am not one!), but this is an important issue about which there seems to
be some confusion, and so I would like to carry the discussion a bit
further.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected, especially since, as
Chris suggested, copyright law is too complicated for any one mere
mortal to comprehend."

Ultimately, the problem is that who knows who is right or wrong.  That
is never the question in any legal problem.  It's only what you can
prove.  I thought I was right a lot of the times in law school,
unfortunately my law professors saw it different a good portion of the
time :).  The state of Texas clearly thinks they can copyright their
state statutes, court opinions, etc.  California takes a different
approach.  Yes, states can issue copyright protection for public
documents . That doesn't mean that those statutes comport with the
Supremacy clause.  

I can tell you one thing, however.  If states start affording state
copyright protection to court opinions and statutes, then Westlaw will
quickly challenge any and every such state statute.   



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Hirtle [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Copyright status of public records [was Digitization of
microforms]

In his response to my post, Chris Garmire suggested that the
correspondent who indicated that "recorded public records or public
records in the US have no copyrights" was correct, and that I was wrong
to refute this.  I hate to argue with an IP lawyer (especially since I
am not one!), but this is an important issue about which there seems to
be some confusion, and so I would like to carry the discussion a bit
further.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected, especially since, as
Chris suggested, copyright law is too complicated for any one mere
mortal to comprehend.

Here is my understanding of the matter:

Both Chris and Charlotte Coats implied that I was thinking about
preemption (the doctrine that Federal copyright law trumps state
copyright law), but that is not the case.  Under federal copyright law,
any original expression is copyrighted as soon as it is fixed in a
tangible form.  It doesn't matter if the author is JD Salinger or the
State of Iowa; the work receives federal (not state) copyright
protection.

There are a few exceptions to this general rule.  Section 105 of the
Copyright Act specifies that works of the US Federal government cannot
be copyrighted (but says nothing about state or local copyrights).  Most
court cases of which I am aware say that court decisions and briefs
submitted to the court cannot be copyrighted.  Statutes, ordinances, and
other laws also cannot be copyrighted - even if they incorporate work
that initially was copyrighted (see Veeck v. South. Bldg. Code Cong.
Intl.).

The distinction is best summarized in Stephen Fishman's excellent book
"The Public Domain."  Fishman writes:

"The rule that the U.S. Government works are in the public domain does
not apply to works by state and local government employees; those works
may be protected by copyright.  For example, a state tax pamphlet or
booklet on air pollution or water conservation published by a city or
country may be protected."  Fishman adds that the trend seems to be for
state governments increasingly to claim copyright protection as a way to
earn extra income.

So I would maintain again that non-federal public records in the US are
quite likely to be protected by copyright - unless they are purely
factual, part of a court proceedings, or part of the law.

Chris and I are in agreement that the discussion on the list is purely
informational, and not legal advice.

Peter Hirtle 

A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the
Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
For the terms of participation, please refer to
http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
      In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
                    *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail
to [log in to unmask]

Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html

Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>

A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org.
For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]
      In body of message:  SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname
                    *or*:  UNSUB ARCHIVES
To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask]

Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html

Problems?  Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

April 2010, Week 4
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
June 2003, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3
September 1998, Week 2
September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 5
August 1998, Week 4
August 1998, Week 3
August 1998, Week 2
August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 5
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
July 1997, Week 4
July 1997, Week 3
July 1997, Week 2
July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1
January 1997, Week 5
January 1997, Week 4
January 1997, Week 3
January 1997, Week 2
January 1997, Week 1
December 1996, Week 5
December 1996, Week 4
December 1996, Week 3
December 1996, Week 2
December 1996, Week 1
November 1996, Week 5
November 1996, Week 4
November 1996, Week 3
November 1996, Week 2
November 1996, Week 1
October 1996, Week 5
October 1996, Week 4
October 1996, Week 3
October 1996, Week 2
October 1996, Week 1
September 1996, Week 5
September 1996, Week 4
September 1996, Week 3
September 1996, Week 2
September 1996, Week 1
August 1996, Week 5
August 1996, Week 4
August 1996, Week 3
August 1996, Week 2
August 1996, Week 1
July 1996, Week 5
July 1996, Week 4
July 1996, Week 3
July 1996, Week 2
July 1996, Week 1
June 1996, Week 5
June 1996, Week 4
June 1996, Week 3
June 1996, Week 2
June 1996, Week 1
May 1996, Week 5
May 1996, Week 4
May 1996, Week 3
May 1996, Week 2
May 1996, Week 1
April 1996, Week 5
April 1996, Week 4
April 1996, Week 3
April 1996, Week 2
April 1996, Week 1
March 1996, Week 5
March 1996, Week 4
March 1996, Week 3
March 1996, Week 2
March 1996, Week 1
February 1996, Week 5
February 1996, Week 4
February 1996, Week 3
February 1996, Week 2
February 1996, Week 1
January 1996, Week 5
January 1996, Week 4
January 1996, Week 3
January 1996, Week 2
January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
December 1995, Week 4
December 1995, Week 3
December 1995, Week 2
December 1995, Week 1
November 1995, Week 5
November 1995, Week 4
November 1995, Week 3
November 1995, Week 2
November 1995, Week 1
October 1995, Week 5
October 1995, Week 4
October 1995, Week 3
October 1995, Week 2
October 1995, Week 1
September 1995, Week 5
September 1995, Week 4
September 1995, Week 3
September 1995, Week 2
September 1995, Week 1
August 1995, Week 5
August 1995, Week 4
August 1995, Week 3
August 1995, Week 2
August 1995, Week 1
July 1995, Week 5
July 1995, Week 4
July 1995, Week 3
July 1995, Week 2
July 1995, Week 1
June 1995, Week 5
June 1995, Week 4
June 1995, Week 3
June 1995, Week 2
June 1995, Week 1
May 1995, Week 5
May 1995, Week 4
May 1995, Week 3
May 1995, Week 2
May 1995, Week 1
April 1995, Week 5
April 1995, Week 4
April 1995, Week 3
April 1995, Week 2
April 1995, Week 1
March 1995, Week 5
March 1995, Week 4
March 1995, Week 3
March 1995, Week 2
March 1995, Week 1
February 1995, Week 4
February 1995, Week 3
February 1995, Week 2
February 1995, Week 1
January 1995, Week 5
January 1995, Week 4
January 1995, Week 3
January 1995, Week 2
January 1995, Week 1
December 1994, Week 5
December 1994, Week 4
December 1994, Week 3
December 1994, Week 2
December 1994, Week 1
November 1994, Week 5
November 1994, Week 4
November 1994, Week 3
November 1994, Week 2
November 1994, Week 1
October 1994, Week 5
October 1994, Week 4
October 1994, Week 3
October 1994, Week 2
October 1994, Week 1
September 1994, Week 5
September 1994, Week 4
September 1994, Week 3
September 1994, Week 2
September 1994, Week 1
August 1994, Week 5
August 1994, Week 4
August 1994, Week 3
August 1994, Week 2
August 1994, Week 1
July 1994, Week 5
July 1994, Week 4
July 1994, Week 3
July 1994, Week 2
July 1994, Week 1
June 1994, Week 5
June 1994, Week 4
June 1994, Week 3
June 1994, Week 2
June 1994, Week 1
May 1994, Week 5
May 1994, Week 4
May 1994, Week 3
May 1994, Week 2
May 1994, Week 1
April 1994, Week 5
April 1994, Week 4
April 1994, Week 3
April 1994, Week 2
April 1994, Week 1
March 1994, Week 5
March 1994, Week 4
March 1994, Week 3
March 1994, Week 2
March 1994, Week 1
February 1994, Week 4
February 1994, Week 3
February 1994, Week 2
February 1994, Week 1
February 1994
January 1994
December 1993, Week 1
December 1993
November 1993, Week 5
November 1993, Week 4
November 1993, Week 3
November 1993, Week 2
November 1993, Week 1
October 1993, Week 5
October 1993, Week 4
October 1993, Week 3
October 1993, Week 2
October 1993, Week 1
September 1993, Week 5
September 1993, Week 4
September 1993, Week 3
September 1993, Week 2
September 1993, Week 1
August 1993, Week 5
August 1993, Week 4
August 1993, Week 3
August 1993, Week 2
August 1993, Week 1
July 1993, Week 5
July 1993, Week 4
July 1993, Week 3
July 1993, Week 2
July 1993, Week 1
June 1993, Week 5
June 1993, Week 4
June 1993, Week 3
June 1993, Week 2
June 1993, Week 1
May 1993, Week 5
May 1993, Week 4
May 1993, Week 3
May 1993, Week 2
May 1993, Week 1
April 1993

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager