Scott,
There are two major Southern "macro-dialects" -- inland (also termed
"south midland" by some dialectologists) and coastal. As I pointed out,
I speak the inland version, which is the one most commonly called
"hillbilly"; inlanders retain -r on words like "water," and tend to turn
monophthongs into diphthongs, or even the occasional pentaphthong
(usually in the word "hell"). Coastal Southern drops final -r in many
cases, and is what the rest of the country thinks of as the 'classier'
Southern accent. People hear it and think of mint juleps; they hear my
home dialect and think of cars up on cinder blocks in the front yard
(the fact that I have had one of those is of no bearing to this
discussion). You're right smack dab in the middle of coastal-land, which
means you get the deluxe accent.
--- Bill Spruiell
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Southern sounds ATEG Digest - 18 Aug 2009 to 19 Aug 2009
(#2009-178)
I beg your pardon. My father was reared in small-town FL Panhandle,
my mother in a farm in central MS. I was taught by example and
correction
that pen and pin were not pronounced as homophones. I rather believe
that
my parents and I should be considered Southerners; the old joke was "I
was
21 before I learned that you did not spell Yankee with a little 'd.'
Yes, I have held on to my Southern accent and vocabulary although I
remain
cognizant of the five clocks.
Yes, 'peen' is part of ball peen hammer to me and I have heard the
slight
schwa after 'pen' but not after 'pin.' As a phonetician, I always had
an
ear for dialectal speech--and used the IPA to record my youngest
daughter's
speech for the first two years. After that, I heard nothing unusual.
My phonetic problem as a youth was the textbook explanation that the
sound
was that of singer--not finger--which had exactly the same end sound to
me.
My folks could not help me on that one.
N. Scott Catledge, PhD/STD
Professor Emeritus
history & languages
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:16:02 -0400
From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: fonetik
My inland-Southern native dialect uses something like "pea-yun" (out of
context, it would be hard to distinguish from the inland Southern
present participle of a colloquial verb referring to urination). I have
seen phonics texts for early elementary ed that use "pen" as the primary
example word for "short e" -- an example which won't be at all useful
for any Southerner.=20
Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: fonetik
At 02:13 p.m. 18/08/2009, Edmond Wright wrote:
> > The trouble with 'fonetik' spelling is, of course, is indicated=20
> by what Seth
>Katz says about the Southerner's 'peen' for 'pen', for the result=20
>would be that
>everyone would write their own accent.
DD: All the Suthroners around me think a peen is part of a ball peen=20
hammer, or the using of it. Pen is pronounced pen-uh. The 'e' is=20
close to the sound of 'Eh?" The n is not unusual for all of us=20
English speakers, but the suffix 'uh' is. I am not sure, but I think=20
we add it to all words ending in a consonant. Just thought of that.=20
We do tend to stick a lot of schwas in where they are just word=20
extenders. It is sort of like we were getting paid by the syllables=20
and not the words.=20
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:28:54 -0700
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Still Doing It Right
--0-1993007779-1250720934=:49699
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is a 905-word Op-Ed piece in today's paper, written by=A0Henry
Kissin=
ger, in which=A0there is a single 'had' and it is a blooper.
=A0
Nonetheless, it provides further evidence to refute Susan's claim that
if n=
o one does it right, it must be wrong. She did not stay around long
enough =
for me to show=A0her that lots of people do it right, including Henry,
who =
is, by any standard, a wonderful manipulator of our language.
=A0
Rebalancing Relations With China
.
By Henry A. Kissinger, Wednesday, August 19, 2009=20
.
For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by
acceptance=
of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled with
America's =
appetite for consumer goods (had sent)=A0sent enormous amounts of
dollars t=
o China, which, in turn, China lent back to us for still more buying.
=A0
That's the only 'had' there is -- right, wrong, or indifferent=A0-- in
the =
whole article.=20
=A0
Some people, sometimes, do it wrong. Lots of people do it right.
=A0
It should be taught the right way, not the wrong way.
=A0
.brad.19aug09.=A0=0A=0A=0A
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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at:
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-1993007779-1250720934=:49699
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td
valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000>There
is a=
905-word Op-Ed piece in today's paper, written by Henry Kissinger,
in=
which there is a single 'had' and it is a
blooper.</FONT></STRONG></D=
IV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000>Nonetheless, it provides further
evidenc=
e to refute Susan's claim that if no one does it right, it must be
wrong. S=
he did not stay around long enough for me to show her that lots of
peo=
ple do it right, including Henry, who is, by any standard, a wonderful
mani=
pulator of our language.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D3>Rebalancing Relations With
China<BR>.</FONT></S=
TRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D-1>By <STRONG>Henry A. Kissinger, </STRONG>Wednesday,
Aug=
ust 19, 2009 <BR>.</DIV></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV>For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by
accep=
tance of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled with
Ameri=
ca's appetite for consumer goods <FONT
color=3D#c00000>(</FONT><STRONG>had =
sent</STRONG><FONT
color=3D#c00000>) <STRONG><U>sent</U></STRONG></FON=
T> enormous amounts of dollars to China, which, in turn, China lent back
to=
us for still more buying.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000>That's the only 'had' there is --
right,=
wrong, or indifferent -- in the whole article.
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000>Some people, sometimes, do it wrong.
Lot=
s of people do it right.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000>It should be taught the right way,
not t=
he wrong way.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#c00000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT
color=3D#c00000>.brad.19aug09. </FONT></STRONG></DI=
V></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0-1993007779-1250720934=:49699--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:06:41 -0600
From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
--_000_C62F596A20AB834B86375CE75059D1374A78784C3AMBX01ldschurc_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brad,
I don't know why I'm so stupid to reply to your comments. I know
certain s=
peakers of English will not understand the point of view that Kissinger
int=
ends to comply with in his use of "had." No matter how many times they
may=
be told that there are dialects that accept the past perfect form in
such =
a context, they must always prescriptively praise their own dialect as
the =
only correct one. I understood Henry perfectly as he seems to be
communica=
ting with this form the same way I would make the attempt. For many
months=
, this listserve was sustained by over 300 interested English teachers.
Th=
eir appetite for a healthy discussion of relevant issues had made it a
good=
resource of information and pedagogical strategies, which you have no
doub=
t also enjoyed. Perhaps the current downturn in readership can be
traced t=
o certain repetitive observations of dialect differences that do not go
awa=
y, but are maintained as the only correct versions.
Bruce
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[[log in to unmask]
U] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Still Doing It Right
There is a 905-word Op-Ed piece in today's paper, written by Henry
Kissinge=
r, in which there is a single 'had' and it is a blooper.
Nonetheless, it provides further evidence to refute Susan's claim that
if n=
o one does it right, it must be wrong. She did not stay around long
enough =
for me to show her that lots of people do it right, including Henry, who
is=
, by any standard, a wonderful manipulator of our language.
Rebalancing Relations With China
.
By Henry A. Kissinger, Wednesday, August 19, 2009
.
For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by
acceptance=
of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled with
America's =
appetite for consumer goods (had sent) sent enormous amounts of dollars
to =
China, which, in turn, China lent back to us for still more buying.
That's the only 'had' there is -- right, wrong, or indifferent -- in the
wh=
ole article.
Some people, sometimes, do it wrong. Lots of people do it right.
It should be taught the right way, not the wrong way.
.brad.19aug09.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
leave=
the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s=
) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any
unauthorized=
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not
the =
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy
al=
l copies of the original message.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_000_C62F596A20AB834B86375CE75059D1374A78784C3AMBX01ldschurc_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html dir=3D"ltr"><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18812">
<style title=3D"owaParaStyle"><!--P {
MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
--></style>
</head>
<body ocsi=3D"x">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"
face=3D"Tahoma">Brad,&n=
bsp; </font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">I don't know why I'm
so s=
tupid to reply to your comments. I know certain speakers of
English w=
ill not understand the point of view that Kissinger intends to comply
with =
in his use of "had." No matter how many times
they may be told that there are dialects that accept the past perfect
form=
in such a context, they must always prescriptively praise their
own d=
ialect as the only correct one. I understood Henry perfectly as he
se=
ems to be communicating with this form the
same way I would make the attempt. For many months, this
listse=
rve was sustained by over 300 interested English teachers. Their
appe=
tite for a healthy discussion of relevant issues had made it a good
re=
source of information and pedagogical strategies, which
you have no doubt also enjoyed. Perhaps the current downturn
in=
readership can be traced to certain repetitive observations of dialect
dif=
ferences that do not go away, but are maintained as the only correct
versio=
ns.
</font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma"></font> </div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"tahoma">Bruce</font></div>
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF516364">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teaching
of =
English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston
[brad=
[log in to unmask]]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Still Doing It Right<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000">There is a 905-word Op-Ed piece in
tod=
ay's paper, written by Henry Kissinger, in which there is a
singl=
e 'had' and it is a blooper.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000">Nonetheless, it provides further
evide=
nce to refute Susan's claim that if no one does it right, it must be
wrong.=
She did not stay around long enough for me to show her that lots
of p=
eople do it right, including Henry, who
is, by any standard, a wonderful manipulator of our
language.</font></stro=
ng></div>
<div><strong><font size=3D"3"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font size=3D"3">Rebalancing Relations With China<br>
.</font></strong></div>
<div><font size=3D"-1">By <strong>Henry A. Kissinger,
</strong>Wednesday, A=
ugust 19, 2009
<br>
.</div>
</font>
<div>
<div>For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by
accep=
tance of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled with
Ameri=
ca's appetite for consumer goods
<font color=3D"#c00000">(</font><strong>had sent</strong><font
color=3D"#c0=
0000">) <strong><u>sent</u></strong></font> enormous amounts of
dollar=
s to China, which, in turn, China lent back to us for still more
buying.</d=
iv>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000">That's the only 'had' there is --
righ=
t, wrong, or indifferent -- in the whole article.
</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000">Some people, sometimes, do it
wrong. L=
ots of people do it right.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000">It should be taught the right way,
not=
the wrong way.</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font color=3D"#c00000"></font></strong> </div>
<div><strong><font
color=3D"#c00000">.brad.19aug09. </font></strong></=
div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join
or =
leave the list"
<p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/</p>
</div>
<DIV>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt';font-family:'"Helvetic=
a","Tahoma","Arial","sans-serif"'><font color=3D"#666666"><br><br>
NOTICE: =
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may=
contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, =
use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended =
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
copies =
of the original message.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</DIV></body>
</html>
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<p>
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--_000_C62F596A20AB834B86375CE75059D1374A78784C3AMBX01ldschurc_--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:24:24 -0400
From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
Dear All:
I have hit upon what might be a modest proposal for ending the curse of
=
the Past Perfect Fixation. Recall that the tense under discussion is =
also called the "pluperfect," and that, in fact, that is the more common
=
name in older grammars. This provides a solution!
The tense need not be past. It must only be plu. Pluness (not to be =
confused with plurality) is a state that can be inferred from context, =
both textual and situational. Brad's sense of annoyance is a natural =
reaction to the fact that some dolt in the sixteenth century -- =
doubtless completely tanked on metheglyn, if not also forswunk at the =
time -- thought that "past" and "plu" were the same thing. No one likes
=
false advertising.
That should settle everything nicely.
Bill Spruiell=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Bruce =
Despain
Sent: Wed 8/19/2009 8:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
=20
Brad,
I don't know why I'm so stupid to reply to your comments. I know =
certain speakers of English will not understand the point of view that =
Kissinger intends to comply with in his use of "had." No matter how =
many times they may be told that there are dialects that accept the past
=
perfect form in such a context, they must always prescriptively praise =
their own dialect as the only correct one. I understood Henry perfectly
=
as he seems to be communicating with this form the same way I would make
=
the attempt. For many months, this listserve was sustained by over 300
=
interested English teachers. Their appetite for a healthy discussion of
=
relevant issues had made it a good resource of information and =
pedagogical strategies, which you have no doubt also enjoyed. Perhaps =
the current downturn in readership can be traced to certain repetitive =
observations of dialect differences that do not go away, but are =
maintained as the only correct versions.
Bruce
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar =
[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston =
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Still Doing It Right
There is a 905-word Op-Ed piece in today's paper, written by Henry =
Kissinger, in which there is a single 'had' and it is a blooper.
Nonetheless, it provides further evidence to refute Susan's claim that =
if no one does it right, it must be wrong. She did not stay around long
=
enough for me to show her that lots of people do it right, including =
Henry, who is, by any standard, a wonderful manipulator of our language.
Rebalancing Relations With China
.
By Henry A. Kissinger, Wednesday, August 19, 2009
.
For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by =
acceptance of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled =
with America's appetite for consumer goods (had sent) sent enormous =
amounts of dollars to China, which, in turn, China lent back to us for =
still more buying.
That's the only 'had' there is -- right, wrong, or indifferent -- in the
=
whole article.
Some people, sometimes, do it wrong. Lots of people do it right.
It should be taught the right way, not the wrong way.
.brad.19aug09.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web =
interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select =
"Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended =
recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. =
Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
=
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by =
reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web =
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:32:23 -0400
From: "O'Sullivan, Brian P" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
See, if Brad had never obsessed about "had," I might never have learned
the=
word "forswunk." Everything happens for a reason.
Brian
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[[log in to unmask]
U] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
Dear All:
I have hit upon what might be a modest proposal for ending the curse of
the=
Past Perfect Fixation. Recall that the tense under discussion is also
call=
ed the "pluperfect," and that, in fact, that is the more common name in
old=
er grammars. This provides a solution!
The tense need not be past. It must only be plu. Pluness (not to be
confuse=
d with plurality) is a state that can be inferred from context, both
textua=
l and situational. Brad's sense of annoyance is a natural reaction to
the f=
act that some dolt in the sixteenth century -- doubtless completely
tanked =
on metheglyn, if not also forswunk at the time -- thought that "past"
and "=
plu" were the same thing. No one likes false advertising.
That should settle everything nicely.
Bill Spruiell
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Bruce
Despa=
in
Sent: Wed 8/19/2009 8:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Still Doing It Right
Brad,
I don't know why I'm so stupid to reply to your comments. I know
certain s=
peakers of English will not understand the point of view that Kissinger
int=
ends to comply with in his use of "had." No matter how many times they
may=
be told that there are dialects that accept the past perfect form in
such =
a context, they must always prescriptively praise their own dialect as
the =
only correct one. I understood Henry perfectly as he seems to be
communica=
ting with this form the same way I would make the attempt. For many
months=
, this listserve was sustained by over 300 interested English teachers.
Th=
eir appetite for a healthy discussion of relevant issues had made it a
good=
resource of information and pedagogical strategies, which you have no
doub=
t also enjoyed. Perhaps the current downturn in readership can be
traced t=
o certain repetitive observations of dialect differences that do not go
awa=
y, but are maintained as the only correct versions.
Bruce
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[[log in to unmask]
U] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Still Doing It Right
There is a 905-word Op-Ed piece in today's paper, written by Henry
Kissinge=
r, in which there is a single 'had' and it is a blooper.
Nonetheless, it provides further evidence to refute Susan's claim that
if n=
o one does it right, it must be wrong. She did not stay around long
enough =
for me to show her that lots of people do it right, including Henry, who
is=
, by any standard, a wonderful manipulator of our language.
Rebalancing Relations With China
.
By Henry A. Kissinger, Wednesday, August 19, 2009
.
For several decades, the global economic system was sustained by
acceptance=
of American predominance. A vast tide of liquidity coupled with
America's =
appetite for consumer goods (had sent) sent enormous amounts of dollars
to =
China, which, in turn, China lent back to us for still more buying.
That's the only 'had' there is -- right, wrong, or indifferent -- in the
wh=
ole article.
Some people, sometimes, do it wrong. Lots of people do it right.
It should be taught the right way, not the wrong way.
.brad.19aug09.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
leave=
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:14:09 -0400
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: fonetik
A nice example of the Southern Vowel Shift, as described at
http://www.ic.a=
rizona.edu/~lsp/Features/SVS.html. What's interesting is how the
Northern =
Cities Vowel Shift
(http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/Northeast/ncshift/ncshif=
t.html) and the Southern Vowel Shift are taking the regional vowel
systems =
in very different directions. Contrary to popular belief, dialects are
not=
disappearing and are, in fact, diverging further, as one would expect.
Herb
Subject: Re: fonetik
My inland-Southern native dialect uses something like "pea-yun" (out of
context, it would be hard to distinguish from the inland Southern
present participle of a colloquial verb referring to urination). I have
seen phonics texts for early elementary ed that use "pen" as the primary
example word for "short e" -- an example which won't be at all useful
for any Southerner.=20
Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: fonetik
At 02:13 p.m. 18/08/2009, Edmond Wright wrote:
> > The trouble with 'fonetik' spelling is, of course, is indicated=20
> by what Seth
>Katz says about the Southerner's 'peen' for 'pen', for the result=20
>would be that
>everyone would write their own accent.
DD: All the Suthroners around me think a peen is part of a ball peen=20
hammer, or the using of it. Pen is pronounced pen-uh. The 'e' is=20
close to the sound of 'Eh?" The n is not unusual for all of us=20
English speakers, but the suffix 'uh' is. I am not sure, but I think=20
we add it to all words ending in a consonant. Just thought of that.=20
We do tend to stick a lot of schwas in where they are just word=20
extenders. It is sort of like we were getting paid by the syllables=20
and not the words.=20
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:23:04 -0500
From: DD Farms <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: forswunk
DD: And I always thought it was spelled, forswonk.
from swink,verb (used without object),swank or swonk, swonken,
swinking, to toil
probably a past participle form
bef. 900; ME swinken, OE swincan;
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End of ATEG Digest - 18 Aug 2009 to 19 Aug 2009 (#2009-178)
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