Brett,

I was not intending to argue for a system that cannot make a
form/function distinction. You'll notice that I tossed in a hedge about
the way I was using the term 'modifier' ("in a very loose sense of
'modify'"), and then characterized the four-category system I proposed
later as an *initial* set of terms (I was thinking of those as being
something usable with, say, second-graders). The point was to get a
system that one could then productively and easily move *forward* from,
and that was presented explicitly as training wheels, rather than one
that presented itself as an endpoint. Later, we'd complicate things by
adding a form/function distinction and, on the form side, an open/closed
class distinction, etc. (without necessarily using that terminology;
again, I'm having trouble being too fussed about the labels as long as
whatever we end up with works).

I realize that there's a long history of *not* making a form/function
distinction in K-12 grammar, and it's more than reasonable to be on
guard against that kind of thing. But it wasn't what I was up to.

Sincerely,

Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University 


-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brett Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: grammar term definitions
Importance: Low

On 2010-11-17, at 9:52 PM, Bill wrote:

> Here's a practical example. Traditionally, we've got adjectives (and
Latinate grammar lumps words like "green" together with words like "the"
together in that) and adverbs (which include words that modify verbs
along with words that can never, ever, modify verbs). If we decided,
reasonably, that we should base the categories on what the word modifies
(in a very loose sense of "modify"), we'd have three categories,

We would? So where would we put nouns that modify adjectives (the forest
green bus)? Where would we put nouns that modify nouns (faculty office)
where would we put verbs that modify nouns (the running man)? Where
would we put adjectives that modify adjectives (silky smooth)? Where
would we put words that modify prepositions (just down the street)?

> not two

That may be what traditional school grammar has, but it's not what
modern grammars have. Modern grammars take modifier to be a function,
not a category. The ability to perform a given function is but one
characteristic of a particular category of words. For example, if you're
willing to take noun as a basic category and you find that every member
of that category can modify other members of that category, it is in no
way parsimonious to posit a whole category of noun modifiers that simply
duplicates the category of nouns, especially when they share few other
characteristics with other noun modifiers traditionally called
adjectives. Rather, one simply admits that one characteristic of the
category noun is that its members function as noun modifiers (and
subjects, objects, appositives, etc.).

Best,
Brett

-----------------------
Brett Reynolds
English Language Centre
Humber College Institute of Technology and Advanced Learning
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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