This is a thread I love to see discussed from time to time because the discussion assumes that writing and grammar are two different and distinct operations. No one seems to consider the point that writing IS grammar. In fact, grammar can actually be used to teach writing. For example, there are three basic constructions that can be used to communicate both "when" information and "where" information - adverbs, prepositional phrases, and dependent clauses. It gets more complicated when it comes to "why" information because there are four different types - simple explanations, cause and effect, comparison and contrast, and conditional cause and effect - and each type requires a different construction. For example, a simple explanation can be communicated by a prepositional phrase (I went to the store for some milk) or an infinitive phrase (I went to the store to get some milk). Cause and effect or comparison and contrast are best communicated using a dependent clause (I went to the store because we ran out of milk - or, I went to the store even though we still had some milk.) The point is simply this - meaning is created by different grammatical constructions. In fact, it is the grammar that determines the meaning - and what are we writing for if not to create meaning? Geoff Layton To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/