The gist of Fish's argument, unless I'm hearing only what I want to hear, is that structure creates meaning. I am in full agreement. For example, I give my students a little bit more than Fish gives his. Instead of just the sujbect or the predicate, I provide both, such as "the baby cried." The results, however, are similar. Simply by using standard grammatical constructions - primarily simple adverbs, prepositional phrases, and dependent clauses - students can actually construct an entire story. The opposite of this approach - waiting for the muse to strike before creating meaning - rarely seems to work. Next time, I think I'll try just the subject or the predicate and see what happens. However, my students are a long way away from creating their own language. Geoff Layton To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/