Tom and List members, you mostly addressed Eric's and Harry's points, but I'll address the part you addressed to me when you wrote, "As another aside, while I normally like the posts that Maarja makes since they are normally quite insightful, I think the initial post on the research card issue was a rare mistake. That is something that should have been handled by making a few appropriate calls around NARA instead of venting on the listserv." If the refusal to renew a card a day before it expires is not stated on the website as policy, a few calls around NARA is not going to help people. I saw no point in calling around after I got back to my office. I expressed my dismay in the research room area and asked to speak to a supervisor. He gave me the same story as the other two staff members. I told him the policy should be stated on the website. (I'm a classic ISTJ in Myers-Briggs, much more inclined to look stuff up than to call around, LOL. Perfectly suited to being a stack rat in my younger days, LOL. But I did do my "research" before I took time off from the job this a.m.) I'm stuck, one way or another, I have no card as of COB tomorrow. Whether I called around or not when I got back to my office would not help that. It's not like anyone would bend the rules, etc. My point in posting to the Listserv was to caution people who are outside DC and who work with researchers. If I was disappointed in my experience this morning, and I work in downtown DC, I cannot imagine what it would feel like for someone who only was in town today and who lived hundreds or thousands of miles away. I appreciate your kind comments about my insightful posts. If you feel I was venting rather than giving people a heads up, I'm sorry if it came across that way and that anyone was offended. I'm human, just like anyone else. And, for whatever reason, I don't always have a lot of faith in problems being sorted out. For reasons that I can't quite explain, this morning's experience just left me feeling really depressed. But your comments generally are welcome and I'm glad you felt free to speak up. Maarja -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Eisinger <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:18:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Flabbergasted by NARA visit today I will probably regret responding to this, but... 1.The no-Saturday pull policy is advertised on the website, so you can only be suprised about that if you do not do your "research" first. The fault there is your's, not NARA's. I have pulled many records for researchers to come look at on a Saturday. 2. It is not hard to call NARA ahead of time, something you want to do anyway. The reason is that you probably want to talk with a subject expert who may have some insight into the records you wish to look at. I have managed to talk with many researchers as they prepared for their visit, and it was almost always to their benefit that they did so. 3. Believe it or not, NARA does not throw up all the roadblocks to research that you seem to think they do. 4. Personally, I resent the implication you made that NARA gives public servants a bad name. Mistakes are sometimes made, no one is perfect, but this comment was over the top. As another aside, while I normally like the posts that Maarja makes since they are normally quite insightful, I think the initial post on the research card issue was a rare mistake. That is something that should have been handled by making a few appropriate calls around NARA instead of venting on the listserv. Tom Eisinger Center for Legislative Archives p.s. As a disclaimer, my opinions posted absolutely are not in anyway affiliated with those I work for. >>> Harry Heiss <[log in to unmask]> 04/27/06 12:36PM >>> Eric G. Grundset wrote: "Both days I had plenty of extra time to spend getting a new card and neither day (the first one being a Saturday) was the place busy at all (in fact, on that Saturday it was empty of researchers). This certainly is not very good public service either." Maarja, Eric, et al., I feel your pain. I once wanted to use NARA's reading room on a Saturday, so I went to their website to get the hours, etc. To my surprise, they don't pull records from the stacks on Saturdays. You have to request the records you want on the day before. This is what their website says: No records are retrieved from the stacks on Saturday or in the evening. If research is conducted on Saturday or after the last retrieval time, advance arrangements must be made to have records available by calling the reference numbers below. To confirm that records were retrieved, call (301) 837-1964. I pity those researchers who come to Washington from out-of-the-area, don't know this, and learn it when they arrive at the Archives on Saturday morning. Never mind that not all NARA's finding aids are available online and that most are available only onsite. Or that many requests for records come back as "Not on Shelf," or that most archival research leads to dead-ends. Just getting to the Archives at College Park is no easy feat, and especially on Saturdays using public transit. If you have to trek out there to search the finding aids to find out which records you'll need the next day, then you might as well do your research the same day you're there. So I'm not surprised that NARA was empty when Eric visited on a Saturday. One would think an astute manager would look at the visitor statistics for Saturdays and ask themself, "What's going on here? Why is no one using the Archives on Saturdays?" Well, duh! Take a look at your arcane procedures, dude. NARA has thrown up way too many hurdles for researchers under the guise of security or lack of funding. I can just imagine the public outrage if my local public library operated as does NARA. It's no wonder that so many people have a negative image of public servants. All it takes is one bad apple or one bad experience. I'm now stepping off my soapbox and getting back to work. But I do feel much better already..... Harry Harry G. Heiss, Archivist Bureau of the Public Debt Department of the Treasury 799 Ninth Street, NW Washington, DC 20239 [log in to unmask] 202.504.3516 [voice] 202.504.3630 [fax] A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>