Once this argument brought in the medical profession, I called my grandmother and read some of the statements out loud to her. The whole argument made her laugh, because it's exactly the same argument she and her colleagues in the nursing field used to have. Nurses who didn't have the formal degree were terrified they'd lose their jobs to younger staff who learned under the new standards that were implemented just 30-odd years ago. My grandmother was certified as a nurse in the early 1960's. This meant that she studied at, and worked in, a hospital for a certain amount of time, and then she took an exam that made her a certified nurse - just like our certified archivists today. In the late 70's and early 80's, hospital training programs like the one that my grandmother went through were slowly phased out of the American nursing system in favor of more standardized nursing degrees. This was a response to the growing amount of technical information nurses needed to know in order to do their jobs well. Accusations flew that by insisting nurses have formal degrees, the medical establishment was overburdening nurses (a traditonally pink collar and underpaid profession) with undue debt. It's true that a great many fabulous nurses who are still working today never went for the formal degree, but it is widely acknowledged now that the move from hospital training programs to university degrees was inevitable, given the amount of technology and the level of education one needs to be a nurse. And, over time, wages have risen to compensate good nurses for their level of expertise. I think we'll eventually go through the same thing in our profession. Just as with nursing, there will be a fear from those without the degree that they'll be replaced by younger folks with the degree. This simply won't happen, as the demand for folks with experience will usually outstrip the demand for newbies just looking to break into any kind of job. I also can't believe that in this whole conversation no one has brought up the fact that SAA issued some standards for a program in Archival Science just a few years back. I wonder how many schools have implemented those? I'd be interested to learn. Elizabeth Ferguson Keathley Archivist/Special Collections Librarian Southern Polytechnic State University A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>