I wasn't even following this discussion, but when I read this post I had to reply.  As one of the few archivists who has a law degree (a choice which should question my sanity), I have to say this comment is a bit off.  First of all, in California, you have to pass the 1st year bar if you go the route of Judge's chambers or an unaccredited law school.  More people have figured out our foreign policy in Iraq than have passed that test. Even if you do pass, and then manage to pass the Bar (also a very low percentage), good luck finding a job.  People with JD's without good enough grades find it hard to find employment.  You can go ahead and hang out the shingle, but as one poster said, good luck finding any clients. 
 
I'm the first one who would welcome the elimination of graduate degrees from alot of professions.  It would save the next 40 years paying off loans.  Then again, we could deliver mail by pony express too.  Being forced to sit down, read, and listen to an experienced instructor never hurt anyone. 
 
Chris Garmire


From: Ketron, Joy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: degree requirements are good and necessary

I agree that professionalism has become increasingly required of archivists and librarians for the good of both professions. But you can still become a lawyer in some states; Virginia and California are two, without attending law school. Both states require at least four years studying law under the personal supervision of a judge of record or an attorney in his or her law office and passing the state’s bar exam, but a formal JD program is not a necessity. And some large public libraries are hiring directors with MBA degrees, instead of MLIS degrees. Maybe because directing large public libraries are seen by some library boards as equivalent to managing a business.

 

Joy Ketron - Courier Service

Watauga Regional Library

[log in to unmask]

"Never trust a man who reads only one book." ~Arturo Perez-Reverte

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Archives & Archivists [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dana Miller
Sent:
Friday, June 16, 2006 7:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: degree requirements are good and necessary

 

For anyone still following this-

I apologize in advance for sounding harsh, but I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to expect to be considered for positions at prestigious institutions these days if they don't meet the minimum requirements, in this case we're talking about the MLIS.  In what other field would that be acceptable? You wouldn't expect to be a law clerk for 12 years at a small firm and suddenly become an attorney at a large, fancy firm without first going through a JD program and passing the bar.  Degrees, certificates, and formal education are tools that all professions use to separate the men from the boys (please excuse the sexist phraseology- I am empassioned!)- they are the emblems we hold up to others, to society, as a symbol of our worth and to differentiate ourselves from the layperson.  The fields of librarianship and archives management have both been experiencing increased professionalization over the last couple of decades, and in that situation anywhere, at any time, some practitioners are bound to caught in the middle with many years of experience and no diploma; the same has happened historically in medicine and teaching and many other professions.  But if those of us who work with archival collections really want that respect and those better salaries, we have to find a way to embrace formal education and promote it and its standards throughout our field.  I'm talking about archives programs couched in library schools here, which I think is the best place for them to be.  School may not always be fun, it is certainly expensive, but it helps us do our jobs better, it helps strengthen the archival profession in the future.  I just can't see how that is a bad thing, or why we would fight this.  Considering we live the age of Google, if we don't embrace professionalization and standardization we could find ourselves unable to counter the question, "You're an archivist? So what?" I for one don't want to be left behind just because some things have changed- what we do is too important.  

Experience is undoubtedly valuable and you absolutely couldn't get along without it, but formal education is the glue that binds us together as professionals.  When two formally educated archivists face each other and one blurts out "T. R. Schellenberg" or "macroappraisal," they know they are speaking the same language, and have the same basic set of intellectual tools that a degree provides.  I think that kind of commonality is only the beginning stage of professionalization, that we may as well accept it, adjust to it across the profession, and move on with the work ahead of us.  Viva la revolucion! Viva la educacion! and Viva la profession!

Cheers everybody.  Pat yourself on the back just a little, because we are engaged in a noble and worthwhile effort. 
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A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.

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A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp.

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