First of all, Thank You for the ones who replied to my message. Somehow, you have opened up my mind. Well, I guess, I'm just frustrated that I can't move forward right "now." To be a head archivist. I understand that it takes time. There is just so much to consider...the educational fees are the most frustrating. But really, Thank You! -Rona Collections Assistant > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maxwell, Daryl A" <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Archival Education > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:50:18 -0700 > > > I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest and , like > others, had not planned on jumping into the discussion. However, I felt > like I had to address the comments in this posting. > > Archivist is, as several people have already pointed out, a professional > title. Among other things necessary to call yourself a professional is to > have studied in the accepted fields of study and graduated with an advanced > degree. There is NO substitution for this step. No amount of experience, > reading, internships or attending workshops is a viable substitution. > > Other professionals, Doctors, Lawyers, etc, require years of advanced > education to enter the profession, yet no one seems to question this. In > addition, no ever claims "well, I've been working in a hospital for 15 > years, so that makes me a Doctor." Working in a hospital doesn't make you a > Doctor and working in an Archive DOES NOT make you an Archivist. Only the > proper education makes you an Archivist. > > I myself have BA & BS degrees in my areas of expertise, a MLIS with an > Archival Administration emphasis, and a certificate in Collections > Management, all of which have been invaluable to me in my career. > > I'm actually pleased to hear that more companies/institutions are holding > out for degreed professionals because that indicates that they are beginning > to take our field seriously. And isn't that what we all want? In addition, > do you want to work for a company/institution that thinks that the work that > you do can be done by someone without the educational background? All that > really indicates is a lack of value to what a professional brings to the > position. > > Daryl A. Maxwell > Collections Specialist > Walt Disney Feature Animation > Animation Research Library > > phone -- 818-544-4163 > tie-line -- 8223-4163 > fax -- 818-544-4192 > > > > > On 6/16/06 3:20 PM, "R L" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > I might be out of place for this discussion since I have not taken the MLS > > yet. But I think it's unfair that a lot of the jobs strictly require that > > applicants must have already received an MLS degree, because it blocks people > > like me who are hard-working and have gained valuable archival and > > preservation experiences from internships, workshops, and > > previous employment. > > I would like to work in a better organization and I believe I have what it > > takes. Unfortunately, there are so many jobs that I've already passed since > > I'm not qualified for it merely because I don't have the Master's diploma. > > Don't get me wrong, I am pro education and I am now thinking of getting the > > degree since it's a "must" in this field, but I just think it's a little > > unfair that people like me aren't given the chance to develop in prestigious > > places just because you don't have the proper degree. > > > > I hope I'm wrong. Still trying. > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: Archival Education > >> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:00:31 -0400 > >> > >> > >> The question of education vs. experience raises (at least to me) > >> this question: How many of you (archivists, librarians, et al.) had > >> experience in archives and/or libraries BEFORE your formal training? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Richard Cox <[log in to unmask]> > >>> Sent: Jun 16, 2006 3:40 PM > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> Subject: Archival Education > >>> > >>> Beth Moser writes, ³I don't think that there's a right way to go > >>> about becoming an archivist -- whether it's from a graduate > >>> history perspective or a MLS perspective. This has long been a > >>> debate in the archival world.² John Erdmann writes, ³I wonder, > >>> how did archivists and librarians ever got along before requiring > >>> advanced degrees and/or certifications? Are the respective > >>> fields better for it? I have talked to so many librarians who > >>> have told me that their experience in library school was > >>> virtually worthless. Many have told me that the first job > >>> offered the best training.² Erdmann, in a subsequent message, > >>> writes: ³Must that education and training come in the form of > >>> advanced degrees at expensive universities, or could it come from > >>> the within the work environment, study on one's own, and at > >>> conferences?² > >>> > >>> There is a right way to become an archivist and not everything > >>> can be learned on the job. There is a knowledge to our field (if > >>> there is not, then we are not a discipline) and there is a need > >>> for education (different from training). As two recent observers > >>> about higher education have noted, ³To succeed in education is > >>> not to succeed in what one sets out to do, or even to succeed in > >>> doing whatever is within the realm of possibility; success means > >>> to succeed in doing something worth doing.² (James Engell and > >>> Anthony Dangerfield, Saving Higher Education in the Age of Money > >>> [Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 2005], p. 128] > >>> We need education, not merely apprenticeship, credentialing, > >>> practical information, etc., because the archival mission is > >>> important to society (and, actually, there is quite a range to > >>> salaries for such positions). > >>> > >>> Leon Miller writes, ³In other words, your title, your degrees, > >>> where you got your training and experience, are all pretty much > >>> crap. The archival profession needs to do a far, far better job > >>> of making the point that regardless of someone¹s title, a person > >>> responsible for archival collections had damn well better be an > >>> archivist, had better have a thorough professional-level > >>> understanding of archival theory and practice (which, in the US > >>> today, usually means an MLS with a minimum of twelve semester > >>> credit hours in areas defined as core archival knowledge followed > >>> by archival certification within a year or two of graduation, > >>> although that is not quite yet the only route) and had better be > >>> able to apply archival theory and practice to their work.² Yes, > >>> Leon is correct. It is sad that those who complain about salary > >>> and recognition also are usually the ones who lament the need for > >>> real education. Graduate archival education has changed quite a > >>> bit for the better over the past! > >>> few de > >>> cades, and there are many programs far exceeding what Leon > >>> describes in his message. Unfortunately, the profession > >>> generally seems ignorant of what this education represents and > >>> less than interested in arguing for it to be even better than it > >>> is. No, you can¹t learn all you need to know on the job or by > >>> reading quietly at home a few basic manuals. Even to suggest > >>> this is to reflect why a stronger foundational education is > >>> needed. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Richard J. Cox > >>> Professor > >>> Department of Library and Information Sciences > >>> School of Information Sciences > >>> University of Pittsburgh > >>> Editor, Records & Information Management Report > >>> Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > >>> Voice: 412-624-3245 > >>> FAX: 412-648-7001 > >>> e-mail: [log in to unmask] > >>> homepage: http://www2.sis.pitt.edu/%7Ercox/ > >>> > >>> "What we would like to do is change the world - to make it a > >>> little simpler for people to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves > >>> as God intended for them to do. And we can change the world: we > >>> can work for the oasis, the little cell of joy and peace in a > >>> harried world. We can throw our pebble in the pond and be > >>> confident that its ever widening circle will reach around the > >>> world." - Dorothy Day A posting from the Archives & Archivists > >>> LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, > >>> www.archivists.org. > >>> For the terms of participation, please refer to > >>> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > >>> In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname > >>> *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES > >>> To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > >>> > >>> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at > >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html > >>> > >>> Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> > >> > >> A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by > >> the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. > >> For the terms of participation, please refer to > >> http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > >> In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname > >> *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES > >> To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > >> > >> Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at > >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html > >> > >> Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> > > > >> > > > > A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by > the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. > For the terms of participation, please refer to > http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname > *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES > To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > > Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html > > Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]> > -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 A posting from the Archives & Archivists LISTSERV List sponsored by the Society of American Archivists, www.archivists.org. For the terms of participation, please refer to http://www.archivists.org/listservs/arch_listserv_terms.asp. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] In body of message: SUB ARCHIVES firstname lastname *or*: UNSUB ARCHIVES To post a message, send e-mail to [log in to unmask] Or to do *anything* (and enjoy doing it!), use the web interface at http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/archives.html Problems? Send e-mail to Robert F Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>