Thanks for posting about the ID Frontiers thread, Paul. And thanks to Matt for posting 13 more photos of the Ashtabula goose to his Flickr account! Like some of those intermediate Thayer's/Kumlien's Gulls, or silent "Traill's" Flycatchers in fall, some birds just can't be IDed to species with certainty. :-) One of the things I took away from discussions of this bird (both on the web and in private conversations with others) is that there are white geese that fall into an area of phenotypic overlap between Ross's and "Snoss's"/hybrids; that is, they look like both "pure" Ross's and like the hybrid offspring of Ross's and Lesser Snow Geese. We simply can't distinguish between some Ross's and some hybrids. That said, it seems most people consider the Ashtabula bird a probable hybrid, but there is small-but-not-insignificant chance it's a pure Ross's (with the odds leaning a little towards hybrid, like Paul said). So what does one do with that unavoidable uncertainty? Personally, that category of bird is one I'd call a Ross's /Snow or "white goose" for checklist (or eBird) purposes, followed by copious notes speculating on the taxonomic details beyond that. Someone with more experience might be able to call some birds way or another, but for other birds, "I don't know" is probably the best anyone can do. Good birding, Paul Hurtado Columbus, OH ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]