Herb, I have wondered for some time if the verb "will" in the sentence: "I will read the book" was temporal or modal. What do you think? Eduard On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Herbert F.W. Stahlke wrote... >Bob, > >You're right, of course, that native speakers don't tend to be = >historical linguists and that our theories of language much explain the = >language as it is today. Also, because of processes like analogy and = >leveling, odd changes that happen by accident tend to either disappear, = >get isolated to a few relic forms, or generalize. In the latter case, = >they become a part of the theory. In the former they end up in the = >lexicon. > >My objection to the CIV model as an explanation for the lack of overt = >tense marking on modals, and Johanna is right that deontics tend to = >behave more as if they have tense than do epistemics, is that it pretty = >much ignores a very good historical reason for modals not to have tense = >marking. But then I tend to look more at historical relics in language = >than at syntactic theory, an admitted weakness of mine. I find the = >historical approach fits in better with sociolinguistic theory than does = >a syntactic theory approach, to give a vastly over-broad generalization = >about how I look at these problems. > >Herb > > > >=20 >A couple of points. > >Herb, >I know that you have forgotten more about linguistics than I would ever >know. However, I am sure that users of the language today don't have >knowledge of historical accidents. > >> I'm not sure whether I want to make a theoretical argument out > of a >historical accident. > >************** >Martha's representation of the verb expansion rule is a good example of >how a description is a theory.=20 > >***** > MV =3D T + (M) + (have + -en) + (be + -ing) + V > >This rule describes your comment that the first element in the verb >string carries the tense (i.e., is the "finite" verb). > >An alternate version of this formula has a different opening slot: a >choice of T or M. > >****** >If (T) -- tense is separate from modals, then modals are without tense.=20 >That predicts a sentence like 1 is grammatical. > >1) *Bob wants to can drink English. > >And, it needs to tell a story why (-s) does not go on to modals, but >does on have and be. =20 > >Martha's alternative (T or M) does not have these problems.=20 > >Bob Yates >Central Missouri State University > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/