As it happens, Dennis Baron (Illinois) has just posted an article on his Web of Language site
at http://illinois.edu/db/view/25/17976?count=1&ACTION=DIALOG dealing with what it means to teach Standard English.
As we have come to expect from Baron, it's a good read.

Herb

Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN  47306
[log in to unmask]
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 3, 2009 10:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: making the past paster

Someone wrote: Many varieties of non-standard English do make the distinction grammatically, and for these speakers the second example would have to be

I had left last year.

because the time of the action is remote.  This is not a standard use of the past perfect and is, in the varieties that use it, not a past perfect but a remote past.

Brad now: Here's an item from my archives.

It doesn't matter how long ago it was. The past is past. The Battle of Hastings was fought in 1066, however remote that year may seem. 'Had been' won't help the Anglo-Saxons a whit, even now.

Note also that ATEG stands for the Teaching of English Grammar. There is no place for the "remote past" or the "paster past" in the teaching of English grammar. It may be interesting that the "remote past" is sometimes heard in waterfront bars in Houston or San Diego, but that doesn't help a grammar teacher accomplish the task at hand.

.osistm.brad.03dec09.


To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/