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From: "Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "'Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar'" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: RE: ATEG Digest - 20 Oct 2008 to 22 Oct 2008 (#2008-228)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:07:41 -0400
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I taught style with Joos, the Five Clocks--a non-threatening point of
departure. I do not speak the same with my rural cousins, with my family,
with a class that I am teaching, with fellow professors, or with experts
in a field in which I claim expertise. Nothing is dumbed down; nothing
is pretentious. I subconsciously switch styles of communication; e.g.,
saying "I reckon we're nigh on getting people to distinguish between
anthroponymy and anthroponomastics." would leave almost any audience
puzzled.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: ATEG Digest - 20 Oct 2008 to 22 Oct 2008 (#2008-228)
There are 4 messages totalling 1207 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. language and writing (4)
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Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:13:37 -0700
From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
--0-212011932-1224684817=:91547
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Craig,
I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is written."=A0 It i=
s important to look at a variety of styles, so students do make the stipula=
tion error that style is "fancy writing."
=A0
Scott Woods
=A0
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM
Scott,
=A0=A0 Do you have a definition for "style"? When I ask my students about i=
t, they tend to think of it as the way in which ideas get dressed up rather=
than the way they get formed or even conveyed, though it's also a way to t=
alk about things that are hard to pin down. A good dictionary gives us a wi=
de range of meaning for it. I'm curious about how you link the two.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:=20
Craig,
I tend to approach style through syntax, rather than the other way around.=
=A0 Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in improving=
my students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in syntax to do =
so.=A0
=A0
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Scott,
=A0=A0 I think one of the primary questions to be asked is whether syntax i=
s best approached as "style" and/or what the term "style" means to a partic=
ular writer and in the public mind. If I use a text like this as a primary =
text, then I may limit the conversation. Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Ch=
oices: Grammar to Improve Style" might be a good example of another good te=
xt in that ballpark. I might be able to make texts available and then allow=
students to follow their own interests in some way. Thanks for the suggest=
ion.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:=20
Virginia Tufte's Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style is worth a look.=A0=20
=A0
Scott Woods
=A0
--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:41 AM
I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a number of times in m=
y
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the=
list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and=
select "Join or leave the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave=
the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ =0A=0A=0A
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--0-212011932-1224684817=:91547
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top"
style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Craig,</DIV>
<DIV>I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is
written." It is important to look at a variety of styles, so students
do make the stipulation error that style is "fancy writing."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott Woods</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock
<I><[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Craig Hancock
<[log in to unmask]><BR>Subject: Re: language and writing<BR>To:
[log in to unmask]<BR>Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv479976276>Scott,<BR> Do you have a definition for
"style"? When I ask my students about it, they tend to think of it as the
way in which ideas get dressed up rather than the way they get formed or
even conveyed, though it's also a way to talk about things that are hard to
pin down. A good dictionary gives us a wide range of meaning for it. I'm
curious about how you link the two.<BR><BR>Craig<BR><BR>Scott Woods wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:
inherit" vAlign=top>
<DIV>Craig,</DIV>
<DIV>I tend to approach style through syntax, rather than the other way
around. Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in
improving my students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in
syntax to do so. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <I><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV id=yiv933903105>Scott,<BR> I think one of the primary
questions to be asked is whether syntax is best approached as "style" and/or
what the term "style" means to a particular writer and in the public mind.
If I use a text like this as a primary text, then I may limit the
conversation. Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Choices: Grammar to Improve
Style" might be a good example of another good text in that ballpark. I
might be able to make texts available and then allow students to follow
their own interests in some way. Thanks for the
suggestion.<BR><BR>Craig<BR><BR>Scott Woods wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:
inherit" vAlign=top>
<DIV>Virginia Tufte's <EM>Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style</EM> is worth a
look. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott Woods</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- On <B>Fri, 10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <I><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=_blank rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A></I></B>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Myers, Marshall <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=_blank rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A><BR>Subject:
Re: language and writing<BR>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Date: Friday, October 17, 2008,
11:41 AM<BR><BR><PRE>I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a
number of times in my
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<DIV>
Visit ATEG's web site at <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://ateg.org/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://ateg.org/</A>
</DIV></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOC
KQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>_______________________________________
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--0-212011932-1224684817=:91547--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:36:48 -0400
From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Scott,<br>
I assume you meant to say "do not make the error" that style is
"fancy writing." It's a nice point. Writing can be clear and simple (in
the sense of accessible) and direct and we can still think of that as a
kind of "style." <br>
In the interest of full disclosure, I have been working on an
article that started out titled "Notes toward the death of style," in
part a reaction to a comment by Halliday in an obscure early article
that style has no place in a fully functional approach. Presumably, the
choices can be thought of as functional, not just stylistic. As in many
other things, I suspect we can start at different points and end up in
the same place. The article is now tentatively "A whole text view of
the sentence" in order to bring in the notion that sentences work in
harmony with other sentences and in harmony with the unfolding purposes
of the text. <br>
I'm hoping to teach my course with open-ended questions. What
we
mean by "style" might be one of them. At least it gets us outside the
boundaries of "correctness." <br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:[log in to unmask]"
type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit;
font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit;
font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;"
valign="top">
<div>Craig,</div>
<div>I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is
written." It is important to look at a variety of styles, so students
do make the stipulation error that style is "fancy writing."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Scott Woods</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
--- On <b>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><[log in to unmask]></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px;
margin-left: 5px;">From:
Craig Hancock <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"><[log in to unmask]></a><br>
Subject: Re: language and writing<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv479976276">Scott,<br>
Do you have a definition for "style"? When I ask my students
about
it, they tend to think of it as the way in which ideas get dressed up
rather than the way they get formed or even conveyed, though it's also
a way to talk about things that are hard to pin down. A good dictionary
gives us a wide range of meaning for it. I'm curious about how you link
the two.<br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:
inherit;"
valign="top">
<div>Craig,</div>
<div>I tend to approach style through syntax, rather
than the other way around. Regarding instruction in syntax, I am
primarily interested in improving my students' style, so I focus on
that, using instruction in syntax to do so. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Scott<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <i><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><[log in to unmask]></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px;
margin-left: 5px;">
<div id="yiv933903105">Scott,<br>
I think one of the primary questions to be asked is whether
syntax
is best approached as "style" and/or what the term "style" means to a
particular writer and in the public mind. If I use a text like this as
a primary text, then I may limit the conversation. Kischner and
Wollin's "Writers' Choices: Grammar to Improve Style" might be a good
example of another good text in that ballpark. I might be able to make
texts available and then allow students to follow their own interests
in some way. Thanks for the suggestion.<br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="font-family: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:
inherit;"
valign="top">
<div>Virginia Tufte's <em>Artful
Sentences: Syntax as Style</em> is worth a look. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Scott Woods</div>
<div> </div>
<div>--- On <b>Fri, 10/17/08, Myers,
Marshall <i><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow"><[log in to unmask]></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px;
margin-left: 5px;">From:
Myers, Marshall <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow"><[log in to unmask]></a><br>
Subject: Re: language and writing<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:41 AM<br>
<br>
<pre>I would agree with Andrew. I have used
Martha's book a number of times in my
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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and select "Join or leave the list"
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rel="nofollow">http://ateg.org/</a>
</div></pre>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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</tbody>
</table>
<br>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:51:52 -0600
From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
--_000_C62F596A20AB834B86375CE75059D137127798F349MBX01ldschurc_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is interesting that the conjunction "so" may be interpreted as PURPOSE o=
r RESULT. In the first case the "do not" is appropriate, but in the latter=
case the "do" is emphatic.
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: language and writing
Scott,
I assume you meant to say "do not make the error" that style is "fancy w=
riting." It's a nice point. Writing can be clear and simple (in the sense o=
f accessible) and direct and we can still think of that as a kind of "style=
."
In the interest of full disclosure, I have been working on an article th=
at started out titled "Notes toward the death of style," in part a reaction=
to a comment by Halliday in an obscure early article that style has no pla=
ce in a fully functional approach. Presumably, the choices can be thought o=
f as functional, not just stylistic. As in many other things, I suspect we =
can start at different points and end up in the same place. The article is =
now tentatively "A whole text view of the sentence" in order to bring in th=
e notion that sentences work in harmony with other sentences and in harmony=
with the unfolding purposes of the text.
I'm hoping to teach my course with open-ended questions. What we mean by=
"style" might be one of them. At least it gets us outside the boundaries =
of "correctness."
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:
Craig,
I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is written." It is =
important to look at a variety of styles, so students do make the stipulati=
on error that style is "fancy writing."
Scott Woods
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]><mailto:hancock@ALB=
ANY.EDU> wrote:
From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM
Scott,
Do you have a definition for "style"? When I ask my students about it, t=
hey tend to think of it as the way in which ideas get dressed up rather tha=
n the way they get formed or even conveyed, though it's also a way to talk =
about things that are hard to pin down. A good dictionary gives us a wide r=
ange of meaning for it. I'm curious about how you link the two.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:
Craig,
I tend to approach style through syntax, rather than the other way around. =
Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in improving my=
students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in syntax to do so.
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]><mailto:hancock@ALB=
ANY.EDU> wrote:
Scott,
I think one of the primary questions to be asked is whether syntax is be=
st approached as "style" and/or what the term "style" means to a particular=
writer and in the public mind. If I use a text like this as a primary text=
, then I may limit the conversation. Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Choice=
s: Grammar to Improve Style" might be a good example of another good text i=
n that ballpark. I might be able to make texts available and then allow stu=
dents to follow their own interests in some way. Thanks for the suggestion.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:
Virginia Tufte's Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style is worth a look.
Scott Woods
--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]><mailto:Marsh=
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]
U>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:41 AM
I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a number of times in my
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is interesting that the conjunction “so” may =
be interpreted
as PURPOSE or RESULT. In the first case the “do not” is a=
ppropriate, but in
the latter case the “do” is emphatic. <o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Assembly for the Teaching of Engli=
sh
Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Craig Hancock=
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: language and writing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Scott,<br>
I assume you meant to say "do not make the error" th=
at
style is "fancy writing." It's a nice point. Writing can be clear=
and
simple (in the sense of accessible) and direct and we can still think of th=
at
as a kind of "style." <br>
In the interest of full disclosure, I have been working on an
article that started out titled "Notes toward the death of style,"=
; in
part a reaction to a comment by Halliday in an obscure early article that s=
tyle
has no place in a fully functional approach. Presumably, the choices can be
thought of as functional, not just stylistic. As in many other things, I
suspect we can start at different points and end up in the same place. The
article is now tentatively "A whole text view of the sentence" in
order to bring in the notion that sentences work in harmony with other
sentences and in harmony with the unfolding purposes of the text. <br>
I'm hoping to teach my course with open-ended questions. What =
we
mean by "style" might be one of them. At least it gets us
outside the boundaries of "correctness." <br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0>
<tr>
<td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;font-style:inherit;font=
-variant:
inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-si=
ze-adjust: inherit;
font-stretch: inherit'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Craig,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>I defi=
ne it
loosely as something like "the way a piece is written." I=
t is
important to look at a variety of styles, so students do make the stipula=
tion
error that style is "fancy writing."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Scott =
Woods<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'><br>
--- On <b>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <i><a href=3D"mailto:hancock@ALBAN=
Y.EDU"><[log in to unmask]></a></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:=
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:
"inherit","serif"'>From: Craig Hancock <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]
DU"><[log in to unmask]></a><br>
Subject: Re: language and writing<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]<=
/a><br>
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id=3Dyiv479976276>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Scott,=
<br>
Do you have a definition for "style"? When I ask my
students about it, they tend to think of it as the way in which ideas get
dressed up rather than the way they get formed or even conveyed, though i=
t's
also a way to talk about things that are hard to pin down. A good diction=
ary
gives us a wide range of meaning for it. I'm curious about how you link t=
he
two.<br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0>
<tr>
<td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;font-size-adjust: inh=
erit;
font-stretch: inherit'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Crai=
g,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>I te=
nd to
approach style through syntax, rather than the other way around.
Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in improving=
my
students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in syntax to do
so. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Scot=
t<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <i><a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank"><hancock@ALBANY=
.EDU></a></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;paddin=
g:
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'>
<div id=3Dyiv933903105>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Scot=
t,<br>
I think one of the primary questions to be asked is whether
syntax is best approached as "style" and/or what the term
"style" means to a particular writer and in the public mind. =
If I
use a text like this as a primary text, then I may limit the conversati=
on.
Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Choices: Grammar to Improve
Style" might be a good example of another good text in that ballpa=
rk.
I might be able to make texts available and then allow students to foll=
ow
their own interests in some way. Thanks for the suggestion.<br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
Scott Woods wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D=
0>
<tr>
<td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;font-size-adjust: i=
nherit;
font-stretch: inherit'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Vi=
rginia
Tufte's <em><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Artful Sent=
ences:
Syntax as Style</span></em> is worth a look. <o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Sc=
ott
Woods<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>--=
- On <b>Fri,
10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <i><a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=3D"_blank"><[log in to unmask]></a></i></b> wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-=
bottom:
5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:
"inherit","serif"'>From: Myers, Marshall <a
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank"><Marshall=
[log in to unmask]></a><br>
Subject: Re: language and writing<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">ATE=
[log in to unmask]</a><br>
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:41 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a number of=
times in my<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>style course.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>There are, however, still good books in sentence-comb=
ining; our own Max<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Morenberg's is one of the best. It =
is curious that sentence-combining has<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>lapsed into the=
land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a<o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre>linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic backgroun=
d can<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>easily adapt to using it in class.<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Marshall<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: As=
sembly for the Teaching of English Grammar<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To join or =
leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre> <a
href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=
and select "Join or leave the list"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Visit ATEG's web site at <a
href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://ateg.org/</a><o:p>=
</o:p></pre></div>
</blockquote>
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</table>
</div>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:16:01 -0700
From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
--0-1604159221-1224699361=:56077
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I meant to write:=A0 It is important to look at a variety of styles, so stu=
dents do not=A0make the stipulation error that style is "fancy writing."
--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Scott Woods <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 8:13 AM
Craig,
I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is written."=A0 It i=
s important to look at a variety of styles, so students do make the stipula=
tion error that style is "fancy writing."
=A0
Scott Woods
=A0
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM
Scott,
=A0=A0 Do you have a definition for "style"? When I ask my students about i=
t, they tend to think of it as the way in which ideas get dressed up rather=
than the way they get formed or even conveyed, though it's also a way to t=
alk about things that are hard to pin down. A good dictionary gives us a wi=
de range of meaning for it. I'm curious about how you link the two.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:=20
Craig,
I tend to approach style through syntax, rather than the other way around.=
=A0 Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in improving=
my students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in syntax to do =
so.=A0
=A0
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Scott,
=A0=A0 I think one of the primary questions to be asked is whether syntax i=
s best approached as "style" and/or what the term "style" means to a partic=
ular writer and in the public mind. If I use a text like this as a primary =
text, then I may limit the conversation. Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Ch=
oices: Grammar to Improve Style" might be a good example of another good te=
xt in that ballpark. I might be able to make texts available and then allow=
students to follow their own interests in some way. Thanks for the suggest=
ion.
Craig
Scott Woods wrote:=20
Virginia Tufte's Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style is worth a look.=A0=20
=A0
Scott Woods
=A0
--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Myers, Marshall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: language and writing
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 11:41 AM
I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a number of times in m=
y
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the=
list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and=
select "Join or leave the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave=
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To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave=
the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ =0A=0A=0A
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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style="font: inherit;">I meant to write: It is important to look at a
variety of styles, so students do <STRONG>not</STRONG> make the
stipulation error that style is "fancy writing."<BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed,
10/22/08, Scott Woods <I><[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Scott Woods
<[log in to unmask]><BR>Subject: Re: language and writing<BR>To:
[log in to unmask]<BR>Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 8:13
AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1340214276>
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<DIV>Craig,</DIV>
<DIV>I define it loosely as something like "the way a piece is
written." It is important to look at a variety of styles, so students
do make the stipulation error that style is "fancy writing."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott Woods</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock
<I><[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Craig Hancock
<[log in to unmask]><BR>Subject: Re: language and writing<BR>To:
[log in to unmask]<BR>Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:15 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv479976276>Scott,<BR> Do you have a definition for
"style"? When I ask my students about it, they tend to think of it as the
way in which ideas get dressed up rather than the way they get formed or
even conveyed, though it's also a way to talk about things that are hard to
pin down. A good dictionary gives us a wide range of meaning for it. I'm
curious about how you link the two.<BR><BR>Craig<BR><BR>Scott Woods wrote:
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<DIV>Craig,</DIV>
<DIV>I tend to approach style through syntax, rather than the other way
around. Regarding instruction in syntax, I am primarily interested in
improving my students' style, so I focus on that, using instruction in
syntax to do so. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/20/08, Craig Hancock <I><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
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<DIV id=yiv933903105>Scott,<BR> I think one of the primary
questions to be asked is whether syntax is best approached as "style" and/or
what the term "style" means to a particular writer and in the public mind.
If I use a text like this as a primary text, then I may limit the
conversation. Kischner and Wollin's "Writers' Choices: Grammar to Improve
Style" might be a good example of another good text in that ballpark. I
might be able to make texts available and then allow students to follow
their own interests in some way. Thanks for the
suggestion.<BR><BR>Craig<BR><BR>Scott Woods wrote:
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<DIV>Virginia Tufte's <EM>Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style</EM> is worth a
look. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott Woods</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- On <B>Fri, 10/17/08, Myers, Marshall <I><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=_blank rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A></I></B>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Myers, Marshall <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"
target=_blank rel=nofollow><[log in to unmask]></A><BR>Subject:
Re: language and writing<BR>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Date: Friday, October 17, 2008,
11:41 AM<BR><BR><PRE>I would agree with Andrew. I have used Martha's book a
number of times in my
style course.
There are, however, still good books in sentence-combining; our own Max
Morenberg's is one of the best. It is curious that sentence-combining has
lapsed into the land of forgotten, but successful pedagogy. It, too, has a
linguistic base, but teachers who have not had a linguistic background can
easily adapt to using it in class.
Marshall
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End of ATEG Digest - 20 Oct 2008 to 22 Oct 2008 (#2008-228)
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