Bruce,
Yours is obviously a better choice than any of those I listed. My example was a bit forced; it’s one I’ve used in the context of teaching the structure and function of passive voice. I would also have my students work in small groups to write better passages with an assigned final sentence to have them deal with roles of topic and focus in choosing sentence structures.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bruce Despain
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 5:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Herb,
How about none of the above. Instead, try, "His shot hit its mark." This avoids the whole question of trying to select the topic from the noun phrases of the previous sentence. The "just as he fired" is what is up in the air, as it were.
Bruce
--- [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 12:39:48 -0400
“Awkward” is one of those terms we use to tell student writers that there’s something wrong with their sentence, and we know how to fix it, but we can’t tell them more precisely what makes it wrong. I too would like to see “awkward,” as we use it in teaching writing, defined in terms that we all agree are meaningful. I agree with Martha and Craig that the problem of awkwardness is largely one of discourse, of given vs. new rather than of syntax.
Consider the following passage, which makes use of passive rather than subordination to illustrate awkwardness.
The hunter left his tree stand to follow a herd of deer he saw in the distance. As he approached them stealthily, he saw them browsing along the edge of a meadow where a bull also grazed. He moved to get a good shot, not noticing that the bull was now directly behind the herd. The hunter took aim at a large stag, but just as he fired a coyote spooked the herd and they scattered. (Choose one final sentence: The hunter shot the bull. The bull was shot by the hunter. The bull was shot.)
Arguably they’re all a bit awkward. “The hunter had shot the bull” might work better, but the problem is one of topic. “Hunter” is subject of the previous sentence, but the subject shifts to “herd” by the end of the second clause. Only a rewrite can straighten out the topic/focus problem. This will entail a change in syntax, but that change in syntax is contingent on the change in discourse function.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edgar Schuster
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Marshall et al,
Reminds me of a quote from M. B. Parkes, author of "Pause and Effect: An Introduction to the History of Punctuation in the West": "Punctuation is and always has been a personal matter."
And don't you love the fact that the semicolon in Greek is a symbol for a question mark? In Greek, our semicolon represented by the upper part of a colon.
As for introductory subordinate clauses (in English), I opened the nearest-at-hand non-fiction book I had: Its Prologue starts with an "If"-clause. And it's not unusual in the best contemporary writing for authors to punctuate "because" clauses as sentences. Especially if they follow a question.
Thanks, Marshall.
Ed Schuster
On Apr 14, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Myers, Marshall wrote:
Fellow Grammarians,
One of the most frustrating part of teaching writing is that there isn’t just one punctuation system for all types of prose.
Various academic disciplines punctuate different ways. Add to that, that punctuation in the popular media differs even from those in academia. In fact, even within English as a discipline, technical writers punctuate somewhat differently from people writing in literature. To make it even more complex, the British punctuate differently than we do.
Indeed, punctuation rules are very confusing. I try to make my students are of this fact, so except for clarifying meaning in a sentence, I tolerate a wide variety of punctuation styles.
Marshall
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Crystal:
“It can create an awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly” applies to pretty much any construction, I’d think; it ends up being circular. The issue is whether initial because-clauses are more frequently awkward than non-initial ones. I suspect they’re not, although getting some kind of outside measurement of that would be a fun headache (“Anybody got an automatic tagging program for awkwardness? Anybody?”). Given the danger of confirmation bias in this kind of endeavor, one thing we probably should not rely on is intuitive judgments about how often-misused a construction, or item, is.
--- Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Crystal Edmonds
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
Geoff and TJ,
I am not discouraging students to begin a sentence with the conjunction "because." It is not incorrect but it can create a awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly.
C. Edmonds, Chair
Associate in Arts
English and Humanities
Robeson Community College
PO Box 1420
Lumberton, NC 28359
(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
(910) 272-3328 (fax)
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
RCC 4 R.E.A.L. Reading Engages Active Learning
A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>>> On 4/13/2011 at 2:17 PM, in message <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Geoff,
Now I'm confused. Here's what I replied to:
TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward depending on the useage.
Geoff Layton
I thought you were saying that "because" might be discouraged because it is awkward to begin sentences that way. Now you are asking US for examples to back up your point. Or am I missing something?
I have a friend who says it's a miracle that we ever understand each other, the possibilities for misunderstanding being as great as they are. Here we are as living proof.
Any grammatical construction, including sentences starting with "because" as the head of a subordinate clause, will be awkward if they don't fit the discourse purposes.
I would be interested to see examples. My earlier ones were an attempt to ADD the fact that starting with these clauses is often well motivated.
Craig
On 4/13/2011 1:31 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
Craig,
All I'm asking for is to "give awkwardness a chance"! When is it awkward to start a sentence with because?
Geoff
Starting a sentence with because can be awkward. Agreed.
On 4/13/2011 12:32 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
Craig -
The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here - that the rhetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on whether "because" starts the sentence? That is totally off the point. Re-read my post - nowhere did I argue against starting a sentence with "because" - I know the rhetorical choices involved. But you merely buttress this well-established point. That wasn't the point. Instead, go back in your treasure trove and come up with examples of what Edmonds was suggesting - namely, that there are awkward examples of starting sentences with "because" - you have many more resources than I do! Instead of flaying a dead horse, let's advance the conversation!
You point out that "awkwardness depends on context" - this is what I was trying to point out, and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to point out - let's address that point! When is it awkward to start a sentence with "because"?
Geoff Layton
________________________________
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:14:35 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Geoff, and all,
The reverse is equally true. Consider "Because you were late, we lost everything" as opposed to "We lost everything because you were late." Since losing everything seems a more important piece of information, the first seems smoother (more congruent with meaning) to my ear. It also allows for two pints of emphasis.
Introductory word groups of all kinds (anything other than the main clause grammatical subject) are recognized as marked theme in systemic functional grammar. They are intonationally marked in speech. They function as a stepping off point for the mesage structure of the sentence. It is not a trivial choice. Awkwardness would depend on context, not on some arbitrary formal rule.
Unfortunately, English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an alternative to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you hear the pause is about as useful as "a sentence is a complete thought," dangerous because it oversimplifies. Intonation is a grammatical system, and paying attention to it leads us into the heart of syntax--more appropriately, into the heart of the grammar-meaning connection.
We don't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The punctuation should work in harmony with those choices. Most students don't get very far on hearing alone. It is also one thing to know how you would say it, another to anticipate how a reader would hear it on the basis of what you have provided (or failed to provide) as clues.
Craig
On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward depending on the useage.
Geoff Layton
________________________________
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:38:37 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Crystal,
Your encouragement of your students is a matter of choice, but I don't see that beginning a
sentence with "Because" is incorrect.
tj
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am, Crystal Edmonds wrote:
The subordinating conjunction "because" is used to link the dependent clause to the independent clause. I encourage my students to place such subordinate clauses at the end of the sentence so that there are no errors in comma usage. However, many students want to begin a sentence with "because". While it is not incorrect, the sentence structure does appear awkward.
Using "for" illustrates students' sentence variety. That is important for me.
C. Edmonds, Chair
Associate in Arts
English and Humanities
Robeson Community College
PO Box 1420
Lumberton, NC 28359
(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
(910) 272-3328 (fax)
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
RCC 4 R.E.A.L. Reading Engages Active Learning
A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>>> On 4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM, in message <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>, "Katz, Seth" <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Traditional lists of coordinating conjunctions included "for" (hence the "F" in the acronym "FANBOYS" for remembering the list of coordinating conjunctions); but it seems to me that the use of "for" as a coordinating conjunction in English has largely been succeeded by the use of "because."
I find I'm not sure here what the distinction is between a coordinating conjunction and a subordinating conjunction. Help?
Dr. Seth Katz
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Bradley University
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of T. J. Ray
Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
I believe you're right in thinking he feels this is a coordinate conjunction. My understanding is that
"because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded with a comma. I just
wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to the committee's attention, folks who evidently
don't see a problem with it as no one had marked any of these before I saw the MSS.
Thanks for your time.
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am, "Dixon, Jack" wrote:
Focusing on the obvious, I suspect the writer believes that "because" functions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a subordinating. Does the student punctuate most subordinating clauses that follow the independent clause this way, or do he make this mistake with "because" only?
I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical Grammar_ addresses the few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set off with commas.
________________________________________
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