Another brilliant post from Mulroy.
R. Reis
----- Original Message -----
From: "David D Mulroy" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts


> I think that you are mistaken about Shakespeare.  He and the other
> authors of the English Renaissance benefited from a return
> to basic grammar that had been decreed by Henry VIII. In the fifteenth
> century, grammatical instruction in the schools had suffered because
> scholars were preoccupied with theoretical or speculative grammars that
> raised some of the same philosophical issues as contemporary linguists
> address.
>
> Shakespeare's  basic textbook was Lily's grammar.  It is true that this is
> aimed at Latin but it is based on grammatical concepts that are easily
> transferred to English and have to be if they are to be understood. As a
> Latinist, I can assure you that English speakers do not and cannot learn
> about sentence subjects, prepositional phrases, participles, the passive
> voice, or appositives in Latin without understanding what they they refer
> to in English.  Shakespeare seems to me to be the clearest imaginable
> example of author who benefits from a deep, conscious understanding of
> grammar.  I suppose you could say that you he and the other
> masters of the 17th century show that you don't need to STUDY ENGLISH
> grammar, but that's only if you start Latin in the first grade, approach
> it with a grammatical syllabus, and make it the main subject studied.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Richard Veit wrote:
>
>
> > >I don't doubt that many famous writers have done "quite well without
> > >having studied grammar."  I am wondering though if you have some
> > >documented instances in mind.  I think that it would be instructive to
> > >contemplate some specific examples.  (I already know about Homer and
the
> > >other Greeks pre-Aristotle.)
> >
> > I don't believe that English grammar was studied--or even deemed worthy
of
> > study--until the eighteenth century. Volume I of the Norton Anthology of
> > English LIt will provide a lengthy list of great writers who never
studied
> > English grammar, including whatsizname who wrote Hamlet. True, many of
them
> > studied Latin grammar, but the grammar of that Romance language is very
> > different from that of our own Germanic offshoot. I'd also bet that half
> > the writers on the NY Times best seller list (or any other random group
of
> > modern eminent writers you might name) would tell you they couldn't
> > identify an absolute or an appositive, even though they use both
beautifully.
> >
> > By the way, I support grammar instruction for a host of reasons. That it
is
> > essential in order to be a good writer happens not to be one of them.
> >
> > Dick Veit
> > UNCW English Dept.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/