Bruce,
Thanks. Would you say that "always" can be an adverb modifying the gradable
adjective or can be an adverb modifying the verb (in passive construction)
Whenever I came I noticed that the curtains were always closed. (adverb
modifying gradable adjective)
When I arrived, the curtains were always closed by the attendant on duty.
(adverb modifying verb)
--
Christine Reintjes Martin
[log in to unmask]
>From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Past participle as Adjective or Verb
>Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:55:33 -0700
>
>Christine,
>
>I watched as his curtains were always closed (by his maid) whenever I
>visited
>the helpless artist.
>
>I was trying to isolate the fuzziness to a certain domain: semantics or
>syntax.
> The two domains drive each other. The syntax is how we put the words and
>morphemes together. The semantics is how we interpret the arrangement.
>The
>past participle is a syntactic category. The passive voice (in English)
>seems
>to me to be a semantic interpretation. When we are taking the past
>participle
>as an adjective, we are attributing a particular semantic interpretation to
>it.
>It is like an adjective. If we want to say it is an adjective, which it is
>when
>we make it gradable (modified by an adverb), we are talking about its
>syntax,
>its derivational morphology. I think this is the way the linguist would
>approach
>this situation.
>
>Bruce
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 2/4/2005 7:40:42 AM >>>
>
>Bruce,
>
>I agree that it the distinction is fuzzy or imagined, but isn't that often
>the nature of language?
>
>Thanks for your explanation. Let's see if I understood it. I'm a baby
>linguist.
>
>I noticed that he curtains were always closed whenever I visited the
>reclusive artist.
>This is a gradable adjective with an adverb or extent.
>
>Now I'm trying to use curtains and closed in a passive construction and my
>mind is blank. Can anyone help?
>
>Christine Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Christine Reintjes Martin
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> >From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Past participle as Adjective or Verb
> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:43:54 -0700
> >
> >Christine & Carol & al.
> >
> >I wonder if this distinction we make between the passive voice of a verb
> >and
> >the past participle used as an adjective is more imagined than real. It
> >seems
> >clear enough that the decision would help us when it came to translating
> >our
> >sentence into Latin or another language where the passive voice has a
> >distinct
> >form. Yet even then there are times when their constructions are
> >ambiguous.
> >The presence of the adverb of extent ("widely") modifying the participle
> >makes
> >us want to claim that the participle is now an adjective for sure.
>Still,
> >its
> >meaning is virtually the same as the agent phrase ("by many people")
>would
> >be,
> >so that translation into an active sentence could occur. So the
> >distinction
> >is
> >not so much in the meaning as it is in the syntax. And in English the
> >syntactic
> >differences are negligible, 1) passive voice is more or less clear when
> >there
> >is
> >an agent phrase, and 2) the past participle as a gradable adjective is
> >clear
> >when there is an adverb of extent. We're on the borderline when the
>agent
> >phrase looks like a manner phrase or when there is no adverb of extent
> >expressed.
> >
> >Bruce
> >
> > >>> [log in to unmask] 2/3/2005 1:25:01 PM >>>
> >
> >Carol,
> >
> >I asked a similar question last year. One explanation I received was that
> >there are two possibilites with the passive construction.
> >
> >The curtains were closed by the nurse. (Obviously passive voice)
> >
> >When I entered, the curtains were closed. (More of a description unless
>the
> >action happened just as I entered)
> >
> >I find this hard to explain to students who are just learning passive
> >construction and linking verbs.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Christine Reintjes Martin
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Carol Eisenhower <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> > ><[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Past participle as Adjective or Verb
> > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:47:01 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi All
> > >I teach a basic grammar class for college freshmen, and the text that
> > >I'm using identifies the following sentence as S+LV+SC
> > >"Martin Lurther King Jr. was widely admired."
> > >To me "was admired" looks like a passive verb phrase similar to the
> > >following:
> > >"The children were frightened by the monster."
> > >Can someone help me with what I'm missing here?
> > >Thanks
> > >Carol
> > >
> > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >interface
> > >at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > >and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>interface
> >at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >This message may contain confidential information, and is
> >intended only for the use of the individual(s) to whom it
> >is addressed.
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>interface
> >at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>This message may contain confidential information, and is
>intended only for the use of the individual(s) to whom it
>is addressed.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
