The NCTE middle level digest covers a wide range of topics, but the last two
have included some very intense debate about grammar. This, from yesterday,
is the first of two.
Brock Haussamen
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ncte-middle-digest V1 #310
ncte-middle-digest Tuesday, December 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 310
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]]
Re: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare
Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]
Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]and VM
[ncte-middle] English grammar/spelling
[ncte-middle] English grammar
Re: [ncte-middle] One More Time - Kamishibai Advice?
RE: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
RE: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
[ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
[ncte-middle] diagramming
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:30:00 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Karen,
The main argument for diagramming is that it teaches students the structure
of the language. Well, according to just about every linguist I can think
of, students already know the structure of the language, and they know it by
about the age of 5. They can ask questions, make demands, make statements,
exclaim, and do whatever that other sentence type is. They know that if the
cat runs up the tree, the tree doesn't run up the cat (unless the cat has
met with a very unfortunate accident). And when you give them a sentence
like "The cat in the tree hissed at the dog on the ground" they can tell you
that "in the tree" provides more information about the cat, and "on the
ground" provides more information about the dog. So why do students have to
spend a lot of time trying to figure out what kind of line dangles down from
another kind of line? Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible. Is that
what we want to teach our students?
Perhaps the weakest argument teachers use when supporting diagramming is
that they learned from it and they liked it. WEll, somebody has to be an
English major. Ok. I'm kidding a little. But generally, English majors
have a high degree of what Howard Gardner refers to as linguistic
intelligence. Diagramming was never a problem for me either, but that
doesn't mean my students will find it easy or see the inner beauty of the
linguistic structures they are trying to diagram. There are better ways to
see those structures, and they are all meaning based.
And, the research concludes that isolated grammar study such as diagramming
has little or no impact on students' abilities to use language.
But don't get me wrong. We need to teach grammar. We just don't need to
teach traditional prescriptive rule bound grammar. I really like the idea
of descriptive grammars where students formulate their own theories about
how language works, test those theories, and reformulate. This is what
literate people do all the time. And descriptive grammar theories, which
are individual to each person, grow through the authentic use of language.
Yes, there are times when we need to tell students how to punctuate stuff.
Of course we need to do that. And we need to remind them to indent, and
capitalize. But the reasons we do that is so that their writing can be
read by others, not because they offend the language gods if they don't.
It's all about meaning, not rules.
I spend many little moments throughout my day asking students to think about
one little word and the apostrophe that needs to go in that word, or the
logic of what they have actually written as opposed to what they intended to
write. These are the little lessons that build students' abilities to
control language. And that's what it's all about. Yes, we want students to
be able to use the language of power. HOW we get them there is the issue.
Diagramming is not how we get them there.
Nancy
At 10:33 PM 12/18/00 EST, you wrote:
>Nancy,
>
>Your comments help me know that I still have some work to do in this change
>I'm trying to make...To be honest, up until I attempted to teach it to my
>children, I had no idea verbs could be transitive (w/a direct obj) or
>intranstive (w/o a direct obj). I see now how totally unimportant that is
to
>11-12 year olds and to ME even, however, even though that particular lesson
>used all student work to point those things out....That is still teaching
in
>isolation....
>
>When school starts again, I'll use the kids' writing to dictate the grammar
>concepts we cover and do as you suggest--give them opportunities to
discover
>themselves what's wrong and show them why a misplaced apostrophe can make a
>word mean differently, and how subj/verb agr. makes a difference in what
their
>writing means....Am I getting it yet?
>
>I'm not a good writer or reader, for that matter, because I know all eight
>parts of speech and can recognize and define all of them on a good day, but
>because I had someone to show me how to put words together to mean
something
>with paper and pencil, and to be aware of how others put words together to
>mean things when I read. I want to do that with my students.
>
>The difficulty comes in being willing to do something different than "what
>we've always done" whether it works or not. Students suffer because of
their
>teachers' unwillingness do try new things....Moving beyond drill and kill
is
>frightening for some teachers...I know it is for me...However, my main
concern
>should be and is my students. My first ventures outside of D&K didn't go
that
>well, but I'm not ready to go back into that text and do exercises for 45
>mins!
>
>A related, yet unrelated question.....What do you think about diagramming
>sentences? I enjoyed it, however I'm not sure how much value it would be
to
>my students.....
>
>
>Karen Brooks Bazley
>
>"A clay pot sitting in the sun will always be a clay pot. It has to go
through
>the white heat of the furnace to become porcelain."
>--Mildred W. Struven
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
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>
>
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: 19 Dec 00 00:38:01 EST
From: Karen Bazley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]]
Just curious...And you're right; linguistic people like drawing all those
little lines--learning to teach outside of the way I learn is a challenge
too
when most of my kids are kinesthetic and/or visual. With one of the new
textbooks we were considering for adoption, there is an entire workbook
dedicated to diagramming sentences....From what you've shared with me, these
"new" textbooks are possibly colorful rehashes of D&K...
My mentor keeps telling me that "language is back," but I'm not sure how she
means it...She is uncomfortable with teaching skills in context which
doesn't
bode well for me in evaluations I forsee. My principal has had enough
foresight to provide periodic workshops showing us how to teach in context
without even referencing the textbook.
This statement, "Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.", is
right
on; insisting that they learn parts of speech outside of what they're doing
creates the same frustration for them----I'm finally understanding that
after
teaching 7 years! It took 15 weeks in middle school to that out! I'm
excited
about the prospect of teaching this thing I love in a way that doesn't
intimidate the children from trying. I have to change, not my students!
Okay....what about spelling? Are prescriptives in order with this? Please?
I
spend a great deal of time guessing what words the children are
spelling...younaforms=uniforms; that's pretty easy, but some of these
creative
spellings can get indecipherable. Using the dictionary proves frustrating
because they have no idea of what they're spelling in the first place!
Your input is enlightening and extremely valuable to me! Thanks!
kbb
Karen Brooks Bazley
"A clay pot sitting in the sun will always be a clay pot. It has to go
through
the white heat of the furnace to become porcelain."
- --Mildred W. Struven
____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:15:08 -0500
From: "Rick & Stacey" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare
thanks for the tip. i plan to start this with 8th graders in late january.
stacey d.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jenny Ulman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare
> My 7th graders perform A Midsummer Night's Dream. Swan Books publishes
> many of Shakespeare's plays in a series called Shakespeare for Young
> People. I like these a lot. It is in Shakespeare's original language,
but
> it cuts out some of the dialogue. It also adds two narrator parts to
> explain to the students what is going on. It also includes costuming
hints
> and stage direction advice right in the student copies.
>
> Jenny Ulman
> Inclusion Program Manager
> Instructor of English
> Selma Middle School
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:44:47 -0600
From: "KBeers" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]
Susie,
I saw your request to Nancy asking her for some good articles to share with
parents or administrators about the teaching of grammar and I fear that
Nancy won't tell you that she has herself just written one of those "good"
articles that will appear in the March 2001 issue of Voices from the Middle.
That issue will be devoted to articles on grammar instruction. Look for
articles by Nancy, Connie Weaver, Harry Noden, Jim Burke and a host of
others. I'm looking forward to this issue and hope teachers will enjoy it.
If you don't receive VM, now would be a good time to call NCTE and order it
so you'll be sure to receive this issue in March.
Kylene Beers
editor, Voices from the Middle
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:27:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Liz Rehrauer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]and VM
Kylene and all,
The first two issues this year are wonderful, also. I am so pleased with
the articles. This journal has gotten better and better as the years pass.
When will VM be a choice of journal when we apply for NCTE membership? I
think I'd rather get VM than EJ.
Liz R
New Auburn, Wisconsin
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:43:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Liz Rehrauer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] English grammar/spelling
"Okay....what about spelling? Are prescriptives in order with this?
Please?"
I too am failing miserably with spelling. I'm trying Atwell with kids
having their own spelling words. They are spelling their own spelling words
wrong. It doesn't make sense to me for the kids to prepare their own list
of spelling words when they don't have the correct spelling to study. Nor
do they "Study" them. I've always thought of spelling as an individual
skill. Use whatever tricks you can to spell words correctly. We all
misspell words. I never learned -ent, -ant words.
I teach some spelling rules, I help students create their own lists, I
encourage correct spelling. But it doesn't appear to be working. One day
I had kids give each other spelling tests from their own list, and I told
them to be prepared for it. They spelled miserably. They still cannot
spell their own "spelling words" correctly.
I too, am interested in how to teach spelling in context.
Liz R.
New Auburn, Wisconsin
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:00:11 -0800
From: "Terry Debarger" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] English grammar
Regarding your questions about spelling, I have several thoughts. I get
higher quality writing when I take the pressure to spell perfectly away.
Constance Weaver has a fine explanation of why we should be pleased will
spelling errors and not seek correctness in all writing. Focus on a few
words that students use frequently. Weekly spelling lists, in my
experience, don't improve spelling in the context of writing. Is there any
'research' to the contrary? Personally, I focus on the word I have to
spell-check frequently. In my last paper, it was 'pursue.' Now I have it.
I also use a word wall in class, where kids put up correctly spelled words
that give them trouble (necessary, chocolate, etc.).
I would like dispel the misconception that phonics based instruction is the
solution for spelling problems and that invented spelling, an approach used
in the early elementary grades, causes non-standard spelling. You example
of "younaforms" combines a sight word with a phonetic spelling, which is not
a bad way to approach writing a word your not sure of, just in this case it
does not yield a correct version .
In conversations with high school teachers, I often hear complaints about
'invented spelling' ruining their student's spelling. This is followed by
anecdotes of errors that could more readily be ascribed to a phonetic attack
strategy. As the 'bridge' between elementary and high school, I feel that
we should educate our peers who are tempted to lay blame where I does not
belong.
As a side note, in this message, I 'spell checked' four words. Makes me
look like a much better speller than I usually am.
>>> Karen Bazley <[log in to unmask]> 05/23/80 10:38PM >>>
Just curious...And you're right; linguistic people like drawing all those
little lines--learning to teach outside of the way I learn is a challenge
too
when most of my kids are kinesthetic and/or visual. With one of the new
textbooks we were considering for adoption, there is an entire workbook
dedicated to diagramming sentences....From what you've shared with me, these
"new" textbooks are possibly colorful rehashes of D&K...
My mentor keeps telling me that "language is back," but I'm not sure how she
means it...She is uncomfortable with teaching skills in context which
doesn't
bode well for me in evaluations I forsee. My principal has had enough
foresight to provide periodic workshops showing us how to teach in context
without even referencing the textbook.
This statement, "Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.", is
right
on; insisting that they learn parts of speech outside of what they're doing
creates the same frustration for them----I'm finally understanding that
after
teaching 7 years! It took 15 weeks in middle school to that out! I'm
excited
about the prospect of teaching this thing I love in a way that doesn't
intimidate the children from trying. I have to change, not my students!
Okay....what about spelling? Are prescriptives in order with this? Please?
I
spend a great deal of time guessing what words the children are
spelling...younaforms=uniforms; that's pretty easy, but some of these
creative
spellings can get indecipherable. Using the dictionary proves frustrating
because they have no idea of what they're spelling in the first place!
Your input is enlightening and extremely valuable to me! Thanks!
kbb
Karen Brooks Bazley
"A clay pot sitting in the sun will always be a clay pot. It has to go
through
the white heat of the furnace to become porcelain."
- --Mildred W. Struven
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/webmail
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:49:54 -0800
From: Kathy Arthurs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] One More Time - Kamishibai Advice?
I, too, loaded it up, but the captions were not there. I did think the
pictures
"said it all!" I must have missed the original post. I'd love to know a
little
more about the theory and how you incorporate it into class projects.
Again,
nice job. Tell your students I loved the art. ( I,too, teach the Nye
version of
Beowulf. It's my kids favorite story out of two years!!! Kathy A.
Marji Morris wrote:
> gretchen
> they loaded quickly here and when i clicked to view the enlarged pix and
> caption, it came up right away. looks great!
> marji
>
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:42:13 -0600
From: "Jennifer Quinn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
I teach Shakespeare to my 6th graders. Last year I did it with all levels.
This year I just finished it with my advanced and plan to do it with the
rest at the end of the year. I do Much Ado About Nothing. Once you set up
the scene and the characters, it is not too difficult for them. I have had
success with this unit for 2 years and the kids love it.
Jenn in NC
- -----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of Amiela Kleinschmidt
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
Would anyone out here be able to recommend appropriate versions of
Shakespeare for
8th graders who are not all super strong readers? I don't know if
Shakespeare is normally
performed in its pure form at this age, or abridged, or modified, or
what.
It'll be my first attempt at teaching the Bard, and I'd appreciate any
advice from this wonderful source of info i've relied on over the past
two years of teaching.
Thank you!
Amy in NYC
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:29:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthea Meeks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
Jennifer,
I plan to teach Much Ado to my advanced class in January -- I would love any
suggestions you have.
I have never taught Shakespeare at all. Fortunately the kids are looking
forward to it.
Thanks --
Matthea
- --- Jennifer Quinn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I teach Shakespeare to my 6th graders. Last year I did it with all levels.
> This year I just finished it with my advanced and plan to do it with the
> rest at the end of the year. I do Much Ado About Nothing. Once you set up
> the scene and the characters, it is not too difficult for them. I have had
> success with this unit for 2 years and the kids love it.
>
> Jenn in NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf Of Amiela Kleinschmidt
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:18 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Shakespeare question
>
>
>
> Would anyone out here be able to recommend appropriate versions of
> Shakespeare for
> 8th graders who are not all super strong readers? I don't know if
> Shakespeare is normally
> performed in its pure form at this age, or abridged, or modified, or
> what.
> It'll be my first attempt at teaching the Bard, and I'd appreciate any
> advice from this wonderful source of info i've relied on over the past
> two years of teaching.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Amy in NYC
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:44:36 -0500
From: Brad and Jami Denton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
Here is a question that I have wanted the answer for for awhile: Why
did teachers find grammar instruction via "the little blue book" and
diagramming important in the olden days? And,a second question, while
I'm at it, who came up with this way of teaching the parts of a
sentence? What articles did they write promoting it? Why was this
method embraced by every school I have ever been to or heard about?
(O.K. those were three questions) Diagramming does not teach
capitalization, punctuation, or spelling--the skills we seem to be
concerned about on this list. It just teaches sentence construction.
Was is Kolln? Who came up with the terminology "subject," "predicate,"
"gerund," etc.? It seems these terms have been around since the
beginning of time. Are they Greek or Latin? Does any one know the
answers or can you refer me to a place where I can find them? Maybe a
college grammar professor? Gracious, do not make me write Dr. Morris!
I still have nightmares about being made to diagram that impossible
three-page sentence written by Faulkner.
Ever questioning what I have been taught, what I know, and where it is
from, and what I teach,
Jami Denton
Nancy Patterson wrote:
>
> Karen,
>
> The main argument for diagramming is that it teaches students the
structure
> of the language. Well, according to just about every linguist I can think
> of, students already know the structure of the language, and they know it
by
> about the age of 5. They can ask questions, make demands, make
statements,
> exclaim, and do whatever that other sentence type is. They know that if
the
> cat runs up the tree, the tree doesn't run up the cat (unless the cat has
> met with a very unfortunate accident). And when you give them a sentence
> like "The cat in the tree hissed at the dog on the ground" they can tell
you
> that "in the tree" provides more information about the cat, and "on the
> ground" provides more information about the dog. So why do students have
to
> spend a lot of time trying to figure out what kind of line dangles down
from
> another kind of line? Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
> structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible. Is
that
> what we want to teach our students?
>
> Perhaps the weakest argument teachers use when supporting diagramming is
> that they learned from it and they liked it. WEll, somebody has to be an
> English major. Ok. I'm kidding a little. But generally, English majors
> have a high degree of what Howard Gardner refers to as linguistic
> intelligence. Diagramming was never a problem for me either, but that
> doesn't mean my students will find it easy or see the inner beauty of the
> linguistic structures they are trying to diagram. There are better ways
to
> see those structures, and they are all meaning based.
>
> And, the research concludes that isolated grammar study such as
diagramming
> has little or no impact on students' abilities to use language.
>
> But don't get me wrong. We need to teach grammar. We just don't need to
> teach traditional prescriptive rule bound grammar. I really like the idea
> of descriptive grammars where students formulate their own theories about
> how language works, test those theories, and reformulate. This is what
> literate people do all the time. And descriptive grammar theories, which
> are individual to each person, grow through the authentic use of language.
> Yes, there are times when we need to tell students how to punctuate stuff.
> Of course we need to do that. And we need to remind them to indent, and
> capitalize. But the reasons we do that is so that their writing can be
> read by others, not because they offend the language gods if they don't.
> It's all about meaning, not rules.
>
> I spend many little moments throughout my day asking students to think
about
> one little word and the apostrophe that needs to go in that word, or the
> logic of what they have actually written as opposed to what they intended
to
> write. These are the little lessons that build students' abilities to
> control language. And that's what it's all about. Yes, we want students
to
> be able to use the language of power. HOW we get them there is the issue.
> Diagramming is not how we get them there.
>
> Nancy
>
> At 10:33 PM 12/18/00 EST, you wrote:
> >Nancy,
> >
> >Your comments help me know that I still have some work to do in this
change
> >I'm trying to make...To be honest, up until I attempted to teach it to my
> >children, I had no idea verbs could be transitive (w/a direct obj) or
> >intranstive (w/o a direct obj). I see now how totally unimportant that
is to
> >11-12 year olds and to ME even, however, even though that particular
lesson
> >used all student work to point those things out....That is still teaching
in
> >isolation....
> >
> >When school starts again, I'll use the kids' writing to dictate the
grammar
> >concepts we cover and do as you suggest--give them opportunities to
discover
> >themselves what's wrong and show them why a misplaced apostrophe can make
a
> >word mean differently, and how subj/verb agr. makes a difference in what
their
> >writing means....Am I getting it yet?
> >
> >I'm not a good writer or reader, for that matter, because I know all
eight
> >parts of speech and can recognize and define all of them on a good day,
but
> >because I had someone to show me how to put words together to mean
something
> >with paper and pencil, and to be aware of how others put words together
to
> >mean things when I read. I want to do that with my students.
> >
> >The difficulty comes in being willing to do something different than
"what
> >we've always done" whether it works or not. Students suffer because of
their
> >teachers' unwillingness do try new things....Moving beyond drill and kill
is
> >frightening for some teachers...I know it is for me...However, my main
concern
> >should be and is my students. My first ventures outside of D&K didn't go
that
> >well, but I'm not ready to go back into that text and do exercises for 45
> >mins!
> >
> >A related, yet unrelated question.....What do you think about diagramming
> >sentences? I enjoyed it, however I'm not sure how much value it would be
to
> >my students.....
> >
> >
> >Karen Brooks Bazley
> >
> >"A clay pot sitting in the sun will always be a clay pot. It has to go
through
> >the white heat of the furnace to become porcelain."
> >--Mildred W. Struven
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> Nancy G. Patterson
> Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
> Portland, MI 48875
>
> "The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
> culture."
> --Roland Barthes
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
> http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
>
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:31:22 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
In a message dated 12/18/0 9:01:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
>structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.
I disagree. My visually oriented students often have the "Eureka!"
lightbulb
go off when they see a sentence diagrammed--or, better still, when they
write
one of their own and construct a diagram for it. For kids who feel they
have
a hard time with grammar, diagramming can be the very activity that lets
them
'see' the sentence.
As constructionists, we applaud pictures, collages, maps, and many more
activities that help us approach language in a variety of ways. To
eliminate
diagramming because of its historical place as a former Torturer of Students
is not necessary; indeed, it can increase accessibility for some.
Candace Lindquist
Campbell, CA
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:17:50 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Candace, sorry, but diagramming with the expectation that it will turn
students into better writers is far from a constructivist perspective. It
might help students learn the parts of speech, and there is nothing per se
wrong with students knowing the parts of speech, as long as there is no
expectation that such knowledge will make students better users of language,
and that learning such facts doesn't take time away from what Arthur
Applebee (I think) calls language in action. Linguists, by the way, do not
use what is commonly referred to as school grammar. The last linguistics
course I took, which was a discourse analysis course, used Functional
Systemic Grammar developed by Halladay. There are transformational
grammarians and functional systemic grammarians, and they have lots of fun
disagreeing with each other. There are also Tagmemic grammarians,
rhetorical grammarians, and a few others that I've forgotten. But school
grammar, kind of a bird unto itself that is prized only by English teachers,
doesn't have a very good theoretical foundation as grammars go. It does a
poor job of explaining the functions of linguistic structures, and it's main
purpose seems to be to serve as the billy club of the grammar police.
Nancy
At 04:31 PM 12/19/00 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/18/0 9:01:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>>Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
>>structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.
>
>
>I disagree. My visually oriented students often have the "Eureka!"
lightbulb
>go off when they see a sentence diagrammed--or, better still, when they
write
>one of their own and construct a diagram for it. For kids who feel they
have
>a hard time with grammar, diagramming can be the very activity that lets
them
>'see' the sentence.
>
>As constructionists, we applaud pictures, collages, maps, and many more
>activities that help us approach language in a variety of ways. To
eliminate
>diagramming because of its historical place as a former Torturer of
Students
>is not necessary; indeed, it can increase accessibility for some.
>
>Candace Lindquist
>Campbell, CA
>----------------------------------------------------
>Archives-> http://www.ncte.org/lists/ncte-middle/archives.shtml
>If you wish to escape NCTE-MIDDLE, send email to [log in to unmask]
>In the first line of the note put: unsubscribe ncte-middle
>Write to [log in to unmask] if you run into trouble.
>----------------------------------------------------
>
>
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:34:03 -0800
From: "Terry Debarger" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] diagramming
Ever try to diagram, "See Spot Run"? Not a particularly elegant or rational
expression of a simple idea.
>>> <[log in to unmask]> 12/19/00 01:31PM >>>
In a message dated 12/18/0 9:01:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
>structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.
I disagree. My visually oriented students often have the "Eureka!"
lightbulb
go off when they see a sentence diagrammed--or, better still, when they
write
one of their own and construct a diagram for it. For kids who feel they
have
a hard time with grammar, diagramming can be the very activity that lets
them
'see' the sentence.
As constructionists, we applaud pictures, collages, maps, and many more
activities that help us approach language in a variety of ways. To
eliminate
diagramming because of its historical place as a former Torturer of Students
is not necessary; indeed, it can increase accessibility for some.
Candace Lindquist
Campbell, CA
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