The sentence can be recast as an active, and I can see the nominal
wh-clause as a metaphorical agent (and yes, I'm not sure what the
difference between "source" and "metaphorical agent" is either!):

 

Where the speaker needs to breathe determined this.

 

If that sounds a bit odd, maybe this works a bit better, since it's less
context-dependent:

 

What the participants asked for determined what they got.

 

 

Bill Spruiell

Dept. of English

Central Michigan University

 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: object of a preposition?

 

I agree with Kathleen, but perhaps the problem with analyzing the
sentence, at least on first pass, is the independent relative that
serves as the object of the preposition "by."  We don't think of clauses
as agents, but the by-phrase can also be instrumental, as in 

 

The window was smashed by a wind-borne tree limb.

 

However, instruments tend to be inanimate objects, with the well-known
exception of cases like

 

James Bond broke the window with the Russian.

 

There is, however, a broader semantic category that works here, called
"source."  "...where the speaker needs to breathe" is the source
whatever "these" refers to.

 

Herb

 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathleen M. Ward
Sent: 2009-04-16 17:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: object of a preposition?

 

And "were determined" is passive voice, making the "by" phrase what is
sometimes called the "agent" phrase.  So I don't think "determined" is a
phrasal verb.  It occurs a lot in the passive voice, however.

 

KMW

On Apr 16, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Castilleja, Janet wrote:

 

Hello

 

How would you analyze this sentence?

 

These were determined by where the speaker would need to breathe.

 

Is 'where the speaker would need to breathe' the object of the
preposition 'by'?  Is 'determined by' possibly a phrasal verb?  I
checked Longman's Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs. It wasn't in there.  In
either case would 'where the speaker would need to breathe' be a
nominal?  I guess it could be.  We can say 'where we go to dinner is up
to you,'  for example.

 

Janet

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