In Act 3, scene 2 of _The Merchant of Venice_, Shakespeare does write "between you and I," but he only uses it once (written in a letter from Antonio; Bassanio reads it aloud): "Sweet Bassanio, my ships have all miscarried, my creditors grow cruel, my estate is very low, my bond to the Jew is forfeit; and since in paying it, it is impossible I should live, all debts are cleared between you and I, if I might but see you at my death."  I find no instance of "between you and me" nor any other use of "between you and I" in Shakespeare. 
 
I do think the idea that this is a new usage (starting in the 1970s) is not accurate. Aside from this one instance, I suspect there are many that are older than the 1900s. Also, I believe that the use of 'me' in the subject slot is centuries old (I seem to remember seeing it in some of Austen's character's dialogue for example).
 
Paul E. Doniger
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction" (_Twelfth Night_ 3.4.127-128). 


________________________________
From: John Dews-Alexander <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:28:48 PM
Subject: Re: I and me questions


James Cochrane wrote a short book/handbook called Between You and I: A Little Book of Bad English and claimed that the subject/object pronoun swapping started in the 70s due to hypercorrection. However, I don't think that is true. I have seen many examples of this going very far back to the beginning of Modern English. I've heard that Shakespeare used both "between you and I" and "between you and me" and that this may have been common during this time period. 

There have been great discussions on this list about why this confusion occurs as English grows less dependent on case marking for meaning. Herb offered an explanation once that took into account discourse/information structuring pressures, but I'm not having any luck finding it in the ATEG listserv archives.

John Alexander


On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Wollin, Edith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Here are some questions for the group from a colleague.I think they fall in the recent-history-of-the-language category:
) Was there a specific period in the last 30-40 years where "people" began
to notice a proliferation of "me" used in the subject - especially compound
subjects ("John and me will be late") and began an "education campaign" to
correct it?  If so, how did the "word" get out (newspaper articles, word of
mouth, increased emphasis in K-12/college) that people needed to be more
conscious/clean up this part of their grammar?
B) Is there any opinion or evidence that a sudden realization of the
improper use of "me" instead of "I" in compound subjects led (via
overcorrection or other means) to the seemingly recent proliferation of the
use of "I" in a compound (or even singular) form in the indirect
object/subject of the preposition? Eg: "The chocolate cake was a surprise
for my sister and me."
C) Any concrete examples of this overcorrection making its way into
mainstream media (Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, Larry King, Oprah, etc.)?
My own take on this is I started hearing“between you and I”from even highly educated people in the 80s. I attributed it to hypercorrection mixed with a lack of grammar instruction that would have cued people to know when to use theobjectiveand when thesubjective.It’s been in this decade that I’ve heard the I moving to the indirect object and to the objective of prep and subject of infinitive places when it is a compound and even sometimes when it is not a compound.
Edith WollinTo join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" 
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" 
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