I'm terribly busy at the moment - otherwise I'd be a more active
participant in the wonderful discussions over ATEG now, which I've only
glimpsed, saving for later - but I just happened to read Rebecca's message
& want to say that what she's doing strikes me as the cutting edge of
language teaching possible, do-able, critically needed, & appropriate for
21st century English-speaking countries. Quite exciting to imagine this
inductive, data-gathering & data-based contrastive analysis approach to
language use & structure as the next standard for school reform!
Judy Diamondstone
At 07:34 AM 8/16/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Gretchen (and everyone),
>As for alternatives to teaching the traditional 8 parts of speech, etc.
>I believe that the future of language arts lies in analysis of language
variation
>-- by that I mean, the study of how people use different forms of langauge in
>different places, times, with different audiences, for different
communicative
>purposes.
>
>Thus, while I do teach at a college level, I have my Language and Teaching
>students take a tape recorder out, and tape record 2 - 3 minutes of naturally
>occuring conversation. Some students tape record teens in conversation, some
>record children, some record their families. We get samples of talk fully in
>African American Vernacular English, in Southern English, samples of
people who
>CLAIMED to always and only use "full complete 'proper' English sentences"
who were
>astonished to find that, as is typically the case, in coverrsation, we
follow very
>different patterns and structures of UTTERANCE construction.
>
>So then with that database, the students are stunned to realize that
language in
>real time is of often fundamentally different structure than language in the
>books.
>
>Then I equip the students with basic grammatical knowledge of sentence
structure
>(as in Kolln's work, or Morenbergs), and with that tool, they begin a
contrastive
>analysis, seeking to identify what it is that makes conversation patterns,
well,
>conversation -- what are the differences of structure? Well, for starters, a
>"complete sentence" may be a rarity in conversation while a frequent trait of
>book-writing. This then provides the teacher and student understanding of
why
>students have such a hard time learning to WRITE Standard English -- they are
>putting on paper their accustomed conversational patterns, and the syntax of
>conversation and the syntax of Standard Edited English are quite different.
>
>The whole process is inductively driven, with students doing discovery.
>
>By the way, this is not just for college students. I'm working in the
inner city
>schools of my local area, seeking to reduce the achievement gap between
African
>American children and children of the dominant majority. Resources for 3rd
graders
>are robust -- Thus, see Noma LeMoine's English for Your Success which uses
a range
>of African American centered children's book to prompt metalinguistic
awareness of
>language variation and language structure in context.
>
>So for example, Flossie and The Fox is a children's book in which the Fox
speaks
>in Standard English, and Flossie and her family, in African American
Vernacular
>English. The 3rd graders are prompted to contrast what the fox sounds
like, with
>what Flossie sounds like -- to get detailed, and to make their own language
>notebook.... their own grammar book, as it were.
>
>This kind of approach fosters critical thinking, closeness of analysis,
use of the
>scientific method (in collecting data, forming hypotheses, testing, revising,
>etc), and it's flat out fun for the kids.
>
>See also the teaching section in The Real Ebonics Debate: Power, Language,
and the
>Education of African-American Children, Theresa Perry and Lisa Delpit (eds).
>
>regards,
>
>Rebecca
>
>Gretchen Lee wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 8/15/2001 2:55:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask]
>> writes:<< It is inthe K-12 (or, perhaps, 5-12) grades that help is needed.
>> From what I have seen of various series displayed at NCTE, traditional
>> grammar still reigns, with its emphasis on error avoidance and error
>> correction. >>
>>
>> Martha,
>>
>> You have hit the nail on the head. I would beg of you all to ignore Texas
>> and traditional publishers. If necessary, follow Ed Vavra's lead and put
up a
>> website. But realize those of us in middle school who are reading the
>> research and avoiding the drill and kill of the past are risking our
jobs to
>> stay true to your/our principles.
>>
>> The perennial problem remains, if not traditional grammar in school, then
>> what? What do I say to my parents who tell me that I should be teaching
>> traditional parts of speech because it "worked for them"? I have two new
>> teachers in my department this year (total dept is three!) who are open to
>> new methods. Grammar (and spelling!) are the big issues in any English
>> departments. My new teachers are primed to teach grammar and spelling in
>> context, but I have no texts to show them how. Everything is aimed at
>> college and hs.
>>
>> This is the plea that I started with last year. What resources do you have
>> for me? For my teachers? What should we be doing in 6-8th grade? Nothing
>> infuriates me more than hs or college teachers railing about lower level
>> teachers not doing their job in teaching grammar when I can't get any
help in
>> what I should be doing to support you. (Please don't take this
personally -
>> the teachers on this list serve are our most ardent supporters, but most
>> instructors are much less invested in helping us at the lower levels.)
>>
>> We're willing. But where (outside of Ed's site - I can't get a schoolwide
>> buy-in) do I start? Linguistics should be fun. Language is fun. Why
can't
>> anyone communicate this on a middle school level?
>>
>> I am torn between those who think that an educated person should be able to
>> talk about language and those who say we only need to learn to use it. Is
>> there no middle ground?
>>
>> Help!
>> ~Gretchen in San Jose
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
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>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>--
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D.
>Assistant Professor of Linguistics
>Department of English
>1 University Place
>Christopher Newport University
>Newport News, VA 23606-2998
>
>Telephone: 757-598-8891
>Fax: 757-594-8870
>
>Rebecca S. Wheeler is Editor of Syntax in the Schools, the quarterly
journal of
>the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar (ATEG), an assembly of the
>National Council of Teachers of English (NCTE). www.ateg.org.
>
>Research Interests:
>* dialects and language varieties in the schools,
>* reducing the achievement gap between inner city minority children and
middle
>class children,
>* discovery learning of grammar in the classroom
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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