ATEG Archives

December 2010

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show HTML Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Kathleen Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:13:08 -0800
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (4 kB) , text/html (5 kB)
Okay, I'll try this set.

To take the last first, the "Should you" is a conditional clause, with
inversion of the modal auxiliary and the subject pronoun. Most modern
conditional clauses begin with "if" and exhibit no inversion, but this
inversion  is also possible.  Expressed subjects are required in conditional
clauses, though not, as your students know, in imperative clauses.

In the "That the healthcare system needs fixing" sentence, the noun clause
is functioning as the subject of the sentence, and "that" is always required
when this sort of clause is in subject position.  "That" is not required
when the noun clause is functioning as the complement of the verb, for
example: "I contend the health care system needs fixing."

In the "the cat that slept all day" example, "that slept all day" is a
restrictive relative clause modifying "cat";  "the cat that slept all day"
is a noun phrase functioning as the object of a preposition, "unlike."
Whether "that"is a relative pronoun is the subject of some contention, but
it certainly is functioning in the position that a relative pronoun would
be.  Note that you can substitute "which" in this clause (the cat which
slept all day), although many people dislike it.

The last one (Lynn Margulis' theory that evolution is a process rather than
a competition) is a little different, and, as far as I can tell, is usually
-- and badly -- lumped in with restrictive relative clauses while being
rather different from them.  Sometimes these clauses are called content
clauses, or noun complement clauses, or even more clumsily, appositive
clauses, and they have some interesting properties.

First, they occur only after a certain class of nouns:  theory, fact,
contention, idea, etc.

Second, rather than "modifying" those nouns, they completely spell out the
meaning of the noun.  In your example, "evolution is a process rather than a
competition" IS the theory; it's not just a little more information ABOUT
the theory.

Third, you can never substitute "which" for the "that" in these clauses.
"Lynn  Margulis' theory which evolution is a process rather than a
competition" is just not possible for a native speaker of English.

Fourth, these clauses are "complete":  That is, if you take off the "that,"
you have a complete sentence. "Evolution is a process rather than a
competition" is a complete sentence on its own.  The "that" has no function
within the clause.  Contrast this with what happens when you remove the
"that" from the restrictive relative clause you used:  "slept all day" is
not, by itself, a sentence.

Kathleen Ward



On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:20 AM, John Chorazy
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Hello to all... I've been talking with students (11th grade) about clauses
> and have collected some questions that the list might have some thoughts on.
>
> The use of "that" as the head of a noun clause (and subject): "That the
> healthcare system needs fixing is obvious."
>
> "That" used in an adjective phrase: "Unlike the cat that slept all day, the
> dog ran around and barked."
>
> And if we can get some insight to the following use of "that": "Lynn
> Margulis' theory that evolution is a process rather than a competition
> differs dramatically from the theories of most biologists."
>
> Are the last two simply restrictive clauses using the relative pronoun?
>
> Also (a bit different) - anyone care to parse the following? "Should you
> have any trouble identifying the house, just remember that it has a big
> brass knocker on the door." Students see the implied "you" as the subject
> and its verb remember, but not what's going on up front.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Chorazy
> English III Academy, Honors, and Academic
> Pequannock Township High School
>
> Nulla dies sine linea. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit
> the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/


ATOM RSS1 RSS2