I concur with S&W; I reserve the "popular" use (e.g., "Like, man, do you dig
that?)
to situations when I am being humorous or pandering to an immature audience.
Scott Catledge
--------------------------------------------------
From: "ATEG automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:01 AM
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ATEG Digest - 22 Nov 2011 to 23 Nov 2011 (#2011-206)
> There are 3 messages totalling 556 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Like/as (3)
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:39:14 +0000
> From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> Craig and Others,
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> "Like" now is being used as a quotative: He's like (said) "Who are you?" I
> =
> think it replaced "go."
> =20
> I haven't figured out some of its other uses: "He's like mad at me."
>
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> Marshall
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> Craig:
>
> Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword
> ph=
> rases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs,
> VPs,=
> etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are bizarrely
> =
> wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible.
>
> --- Bill Spruiell
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G"
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto=
> :[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Marshall,
> I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to remember
> =
> the controversy over the Winston ad.
> I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it out
> =
> this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and clauses the
> =
> equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days" rather than
> "li=
> ke in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather than "like a
> cigaret=
> te should."
> S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of the
> =
> old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current usage
> doe=
> sn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved currency were
> =
> immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of popularity, the
> languag=
> e would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul lines." This rather
> stran=
> ge (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972 edition.
>
> Craig
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM
> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@=
> LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a
> prep=
> osition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like you
> c=
> ould use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)?
>
> "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but
> it=
> 's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's .
>
> Marshall
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> OHIO.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Dick Veit
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM
> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@=
> LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition,
> or=
> ally or in writing.
>
> Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my
> op=
> ening sentence?
>
> Dick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain
> <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>bdes=
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> John,
> You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion.
> =
> For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase is
> =
> introduced with "as with." The preposition "like" has taken on a distinct
> =
> colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects, where is
> usu=
> ally serves as a sentence modifier. I would avoid it in written work.
> Bruce
>
> --- <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto=
> :[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: John Chorazy
> <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>john.chorazy@PEQUAN=
> NOCK.ORG<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:ATEG@=
> LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Subject: Like/as
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500
> Good afternoon to all. I'd appreciate your collective comments on the
> foll=
> owing:
>
> "As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale
> Franken=
> stein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly, wrote the
> n=
> ovel when she was just nineteen years old."
>
> As or like here, and why?
>
> Thank you,
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John Chorazy
> English III Honors and Academic
> Pequannock Township High School
> 973.616.6000
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> =
> at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
> http://listserv.muohio.=
> edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> =
> at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
> http://listserv.muohio.=
> edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> =
> at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
> http://listserv.muohio.=
> edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> =
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:44:12 +0000
> From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, like,
> totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, like,
> seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality onto
> yours; s/he's just sayin'.
>
> --- Bill Spruiell
>
>
>
> On 11/23/11 3:39 PM, "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Craig and Others,
>>
>>Thanks for the info.
>>
>>"Like" now is being used as a quotative: He's like (said) "Who are you?"
>>I think it replaced "go."
>>=20
>>I haven't figured out some of its other uses: "He's like mad at me."
>>
>>Any thoughts on that?
>>
>>Marshall
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Like/as
>>
>>Craig:
>>
>>Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword
>>phrases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs,
>>VPs, etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are
>>bizarrely wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible.
>>
>>--- Bill Spruiell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G"
>><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>>Marshall,
>> I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to
>>remember the controversy over the Winston ad.
>> I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it
>>out this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and
>>clauses the equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days"
>>rather than "like in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather
>>than "like a cigarette should."
>> S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of
>>the old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current
>>usage doesn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved
>>currency were immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of
>>popularity, the language would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul
>>lines." This rather strange (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972
>>edition.
>>
>>Craig
>>
>>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Like/as
>>
>>Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a
>>preposition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like
>>you could use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)?
>>
>>"Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but
>>it's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's .
>>
>>Marshall
>>
>>
>>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> On Behalf Of Dick Veit
>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Like/as
>>
>>Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition,
>>orally or in writing.
>>
>>Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my
>>opening sentence?
>>
>>Dick
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain
>><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> wrote:
>>John,
>>You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion.
>> For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase
>>is introduced with "as with." The preposition "like" has taken on a
>>distinct colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects,
>>where is usually serves as a sentence modifier. I would avoid it in
>>written work.
>>Bruce
>>
>>--- <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>From: John Chorazy
>><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:jo
>>[log in to unmask]>>
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Like/as
>>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500
>>Good afternoon to all. I'd appreciate your collective comments on the
>>following:
>>
>>"As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale
>>Frankenstein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly,
>>wrote the novel when she was just nineteen years old."
>>
>>As or like here, and why?
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>--
>>John Chorazy
>>English III Honors and Academic
>>Pequannock Township High School
>>973.616.6000
>>
>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
>>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
>>the list"
>>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
>>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
>>the list"
>>
>>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>
>>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
>>the list"
>>
>>Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>>
>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>>and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>>and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:48:52 -0500
> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Like/as
>
> --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Then there's the beat lyric sung by the great Ella Fitzgerald:
>
>
> I'm out doin' the usual places
> And I'm livin' it, like young
> Then I dig me this face of all faces
> He's the craziest, like young
>
> He drinks coffee at Cafe Espresso
> He reads Kerouac, like young
> He goes where all the angry young men go
> Recites poetry, like young
>
> We start blowin' the pad around lovin'
> And we're homin' it, like now
> We spin records on cloud number seven
> And he's reachin' me, like wow
>
> I'm all unstrung 'cause, man
> He's got me feelin' like young
> If he were to brush me and go
> I'm starting to wear my hair again
> Like a square again
>
> I keep gettin' the kookiest notion
> I think maybe it's like love
> I've been feelin' a crazy emotion
> I think, baby, it's like love
>
> Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville
> And we're makin' it like young
> Love soft as April snow
> Love warm as candle glow
> Love, love is easy to go
>
> I'm all unstrung 'cause, man
> He's got me feelin' like young
> Without him I'm no good at all
> Without him I'm less than a decimal
>
> I keep gettin' the kookiest notion
> I think maybe it's like love
> I've been feelin' a crazy emotion
> I think, baby, it's like love
>
> Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville or Wowsville
> We're makin' it, makin' it like, like, like young
>
> Writers: PREVIN
>
> Lyrics =A9 Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC
>
>
> **<http://www.leoslyrics.com/login.php?gotourl=3DL2VsbGEtZml0emdlcmFsZC9saW=
> tlLXlvdW5nLWx5cmljcy8*>
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Spruiell, William C
> <[log in to unmask]>wr=
> ote:
>
>> It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, like,
>> totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, like,
>> seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality onto
>> yours; s/he's just sayin'.
>>
>> --- Bill Spruiell
>>
>>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;" class=3D"song"
> id=3D"songLyrics=
> Div_dex">Then there's the beat lyric sung by the great Ella
> Fitzgerald:=
> <br></p><p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;"
> class=3D"song"><br></p>=
> <p style=3D"position: relative; left: 0px;" class=3D"song">
> I'm out doin' the usual places
> <br>
> And I'm livin' it, like young
> <br>
> Then I dig me this face of all faces
> <br>
> He's the craziest, like young
> <br>
>
> <br>
> He drinks coffee at Cafe Espresso
> <br>
> He reads Kerouac, like young
> <br>
> He goes where all the angry young men go
> <br>
> Recites poetry, like young
> <br>
>
> <br>
> We start blowin' the pad around lovin'
> <br>
> And we're homin' it, like now
> <br>
> We spin records on cloud number seven
> <br>
> And he's reachin' me, like wow
> <br>
>
> <br>
> I'm all unstrung 'cause, man
> <br>
> He's got me feelin' like young
> <br>
> If he were to brush me and go
> <br>
> I'm starting to wear my hair again
> <br>
> Like a square again
> <br>
>
> <br>
> I keep gettin' the kookiest notion
> <br>
> I think maybe it's like love
> <br>
> I've been feelin' a crazy emotion
> <br>
> I think, baby, it's like love
> <br>
>
> <br>
> Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville
> <br>
> And we're makin' it like young
> <br>
> Love soft as April snow
> <br>
> Love warm as candle glow
> <br>
> Love, love is easy to go
> <br>
>
> <br>
> I'm all unstrung 'cause, man
> <br>
> He's got me feelin' like young
> <br>
> Without him I'm no good at all
> <br>
> Without him I'm less than a decimal
> <br>=A0
> <br>
> I keep gettin' the kookiest notion
> <br>
> I think maybe it's like love
> <br>
> I've been feelin' a crazy emotion
> <br>
> I think, baby, it's like love
> <br>
>
> <br>
> Now we're ridin' a rainbow to Cloudsville or Wowsville
> <br>
> We're makin' it, makin' it like, like, like young<br>
> </p><div class=3D"submit-comment-box-1-content">
> <p>Writers: PREVIN</p>
> =09
> <p>Lyrics =A9 Sony/ATV Music Publishi=
> ng LLC</p><p><br></p><strong></strong><a rel=3D"nofollow"
> href=3D"http://ww=
> w.leoslyrics.com/login.php?gotourl=3DL2VsbGEtZml0emdlcmFsZC9saWtlLXlvdW5nLW=
> x5cmljcy8*" title=3D"Login"></a></div>
> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Spruiell,
> Willi=
> am C <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">sprui1wc@c=
> mich.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
> =3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
> It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't,
> like=
> ,<br>
> totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it,
> like,<b=
> r>
> seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality
> on=
> to<br>
> yours; s/he's just sayin'.<br>
> <br>
> --- Bill Spruiell<br>
> <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br></div></div></blockquote></div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --e89a8f3bab95ee631904b26f8f5d--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 22 Nov 2011 to 23 Nov 2011 (#2011-206)
> ***********************************************************
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
