Brad,
In all of this I have somehow lost what YOU think the past perfect is. Could
you reiterate?
Jane Saral

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> What I really want to know, if you really want to know, Mark, is whether
> experienced grammarians think the past perfect is the past of the present
> perfect.
>
> Earlier, I asked the question directly and they balked, one way or
> another, so now I am at the back door, still not having an answer to a
> simple but important question, particularly since it relates to teaching
> English grammar: should students of English be taught that the past perfect
> is the past of the present perfect, as it is clearly stated in Greenbaum's
> definition.
>
> I don't want to know what the most-aggressive writers think as much as I
> want 312 different opinions from 312 different people with similar but
> different points of view. That's why I asked that they respond to
> [log in to unmask] so they will not be deterred from giving an honest,
> uninfluenced opinion. There are at least two on the listserv who, however
> unwittingly, stifle free expression.
>
> I fail to understand why my interest should strike you as trollish (or
> worse at the hands of others). If you need more possible answers to the
> simple "agree" or disagree", please utilize "don't know", or "can't decide",
> or even "never really thought about it". Surely all of the sincere people on
> this listserv cannot be without an opinion on such an important English
> grammatical device as the past perfect.
>
> I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I hope this helps.
>
> .sincerely.brad.09apr08.
>
> *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
>
> *MC Johnstone <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
> > *Just say, "agree" or "don't agree".*
> > * *
> > * *
> > * *
> > *I am not able to detect your answer to the question.*
> > * *
> > * *
> > * *
> > *.brad.09apr08. *
> Am I the only person who finds this style of "discussion" disagreeable?
>
>
>
>
>  How can troll posts be recognised?
>
> *
>
> *No Imagination* - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments
> on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
>
> *
>
> *Pedantic in the Extreme* - Many trolls' preparation is so
> thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous
> from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is
> that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
>
> *
>
> *False Identity* - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually
> never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness
> (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these
> days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
>
> *
>
> *Crossposting* - Any post that is crossposted to several groups
> should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of
> opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
>
> *
>
> *Off-topic posting* - Often genuine errors, but, if from an
> 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a
> brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll
> post, you have denied it its reward.
>
> *
>
> *Repetition* of a question or statement is either a troll - or a
> pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
>
> *
>
> *Missing The Point* - Trolls rarely answer a direct question -
> they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a
> fine line in missing the point.
>
> *
>
> *Thick or Sad* - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few
> social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider
> intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an
> obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This
> is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there
> must be an *Intelligence Test for Trolls*
> - rigged to always say
> "above 150"
>
> http://www.flayme.com/troll/
>
>
>
> Now back to lurkdom. I enjoy this list immensely, and while my loss
> would not be noticed, this kind of poster does drive people away and
> driving people away is usually not the purpose of discussion boards.
>
> Mark Johnstone
> Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit
> the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htmland select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/