Gerundive is a translation of modus gerundivus, a Late Latin grammatical term describing the Latin deverbal adjective in -nd having the meaning, "capable of being V" or "required to be V", as in the name Amanda, "one who is to be loved." The formal difference between the gerund and the gerundive in Latin is that the gerund is a noun and so has its own gender while the gerundive is an adjective and therefore agrees with the noun it modifies in case, number, and gender. Both have the form verb stem + thematic vowel + nd + desinence.
I agree that we create difficulties when we decide to give it a new meaning, and that is my objection to Ed's use of it in KISS. However, it's a fairly trivial sin as these things go, and if people start using this term for English -ing forms then at least we have a single, agreed-upon name for them.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Jane Saral
Sent: Wed 10/5/2005 6:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A Lesson on "Be" Verbs
"Gerundive" is not a Latin word. It is an English word describing a
Latin form. So I think we create difficulties when we decide to give it
a new meaning.
Jane
>>> [log in to unmask] 10/05/05 16:16 PM >>>
Exactly, and if terms are supposed to be appropriate to the language
they are used to describe, then participle/gerund/gerundive all make
sense for Latin because Latin has three different forms, although
gerunds and gerundives do look largely alike. However, and this is my
argument, they don't work for English because English has a suffix that
forms verbal derivatives that correspond to a partial subset of the
Latin forms and also cover other things than the Latin forms do. I have
no objection to referring to verbal derivatives in -ing as one or
another of the Latin terms just to give them a name, for those who don't
like "-ing form", but let's recognize that these forms are not the same
things that the terms label in other languages. We get into a little
trouble here with the etymological fallacy: because the term we choose
means a certain thing in Latin, where the term comes from, it must mean
that in English also. But it doesn't and we shouldn't expect it to.
But I agree with Ed that we should pick a term and stick with it. I
think his choice of "gerundive" is unfortunate, but then I don't like
canned green beans either.
Herb
I think the problem with the term "gerundive" occurs because to some
people that means a verb form that functions as an adjective (in Latin),
while a "gerund" is a verb form that functions as a noun (in Latin and
in English).
Jane Saral
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