Admittedly I am from an older generation than many on list; however,
I did not hear "between you and I" from students above 7th grade--much
less from "highly educated people."  Then again, most of my contacts
lately are either from the Deep South or are very interested in language(s).

My sixth-grade English teacher was not a structural linguistic--she went to
college in the 30s--however, she led us into understanding phrasal verbs
and distinguishing prepositions from particles by the mobility of the
particle.

I must confess that I had a professor in 1960 with a PhD in Creative Writing
who did not know that 'bases' was the plural of 'basis' and I reckon a PhD
is considered "highly educated"; however, he was not from the Deep South.

Scott Catledge



-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
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Subject: ATEG Digest - 21 Mar 2009 to 23 Mar 2009 (#2009-64)

There are 4 messages totalling 1312 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. I and me questions (2)
  2. Phrasal Verb Overview (2)

My own take on this is I started hearing "between you and I" from even
highly educated people in the 80s. I attributed it to hypercorrection
mixed with a lack of grammar instruction that would have cued people to
know when to use the objective and when the subjective. It's been in
this decade that I've heard the I moving to the indirect object and to
the objective of prep and subject of infinitive places when it is a
compound and even sometimes when it is not a compound.

Edith Wollin

   - Structural linguists have noted the difference between separable and
   inseparable phrasal verbs.Separable phrasal verbs have prepositions that
can
   be moved to a position after the object noun phrase (example, "I gave up
the
   game" vs "I gave the game up" or "I gave it up"). Inseparable phrasal
verbs
   have prepositions that cannot be moved (example, "I depend on the income"
vs
   *"I depend the income on" or *"I depend it on").
   - As you can see from the above examples, when the object of a separable
   transitive phrasal verb is a pronoun, the movement of the preposition is
   obligatory. You would always say "I gave it up" and never *"I gave up
it."
   (I think I would cringe if I heard this avoided with some clunky
   construction like, "Up it is that I gave it.") In this sense, it is
actually
   *ungrammatical* to NOT end a sentence with a preposition.

Hope all the grammar nerds enjoy this as much as I did!

Regards,

John Alexander
Austin, Texas

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