Nicely put!
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 2:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Quick Common Core question
As should be evident, these are not "standards" or "objectives" with any other pedagogical or educational relevance but only part of a CYA document that can be used to pass blame on to others (i.e., teachers). Politicians and administrators can say, "Well, we did the heavy lifting of putting together this wise, sound document, which we know to be wise and sound because we did it."
Geoff Layton
________________________________
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 17:37:59 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quick Common Core question
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
John,
My questions include how teachers are expected to meet the "standards" (which are really objectives and not standards." For example, what does "by grade 8, students should be able to Explain the function of verbals (gerunds, participles, infinitives) in general and their function in particular sentences" mean? It probably does not mean that students should be able to identify these constructions in what they read and write. Therefore, I would suggest, it is a totally useless objective. Most of my college students cannot identify "is," "are," "was," and "were" as verbs.
Ed
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Chorazy
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quick Common Core question
A few Language Standards for 11-12 grades (with my parenthetical annotations):
1. Demonstrate command of the conventions of standard English grammar and usage when writing or speaking (I'd agree there is no specific demand here for a language set that describes the conventions, but there is broad room for introducing it and for students to employ it in order to fulfill the requirements of an ELA course. The Standards aren't the end or the all of the curriculum, they're a framework for "college readiness"... though maybe that's another discussion in itself...).
a. Apply the understanding that usage is a matter of convention, can change over time, and is sometimes contested (How does one apply this understanding without a common language set to engage in a productive conversation? I think there's plenty of room for the classroom teacher here, necessarily).
b. Resolve issues of complex or contested usage, consulting references (e.g.Merriam- Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, Garner's Modern American Usage) as needed (Same as above, I'd say. Complex issues demand a complex jargon).
3. Apply knowledge of language to understand how language functions in different contexts, to make effective choices for meaning or style, and to comprehend more fully when reading or listening (This is clearly metaknowledge, though I still agree with Ed that nothing is demanded in specific terms.).
a. Vary syntax for effect, consulting references (e.g., Tufte's Artful Sentences) for guidance as needed; apply an understanding of syntax to the study of complex texts when reading (When students are asked to apply or demonstrate knowledge, it's going to be up to the classroom teacher to determine how that's satisfied. But the suggestion of a guiding text (Tufte or any other) is a nod toward the need for complex and expert information to resolve complex issues).
To go back a bit, the Standards state that 5th graders should be able to use correlative conjunctions, explain the functions of conjunctions and prepositions, and form and use various verb tenses; by grade 8, students should be able to Explain the function of verbals (gerunds, participles, infinitives) in general and their function in particular sentences and Use knowledge of language and its conventions when writing, speaking, reading, or listening. None of that is done without metacognition and application of at least a few terms regarding grammar - though I'm aware that the slant is pitched away from using such terms because their practicality is questioned.
I think it will be interesting to see what's on the state tests, frankly; the Consortia who are determining the high stakes assessments for the Standards are the ones who'll have the final interpretation. My sense is that there won't be any questions "about" grammar in sight... but embedded within the questions and readings will be a need for a rich understanding of the complexities of language, especially by 11-12th grades.
Sincerely,
John
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Ed Vavra <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Thanks for asking this question. In addition to looking at the CC standards, I've looked at those of a few states, including sample exams. I can find nothing that suggests specific metalinguistic knowledge. I remember seeing somewhere that students should be able to identify verbs, but that statement itself is vague. Identifying finite verbs in simple sentences is relatively easy, but identifying verbs in their own writing is another question. I'm hoping that you get more responses.
> Ed V.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 4:01 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Quick Common Core question
>
> Hi all --
>
> I'm lazily attempting to draw on ATEG's collective experience, largely because I've discovered that educational bureaucracies inevitably think of a different name to file something under than I do. I'm in the process of making sure the English-ed grammar sections I'm about to teach address the Common Core directly. The CC has a number of statements that are ambiguous as to whether what's being asked for has to do with students simply "producing a construction", or (instead) having conscious metalinguistic knowledge of it. As an example, at one point the CC says that students at grade eight should "form and use verbs in the active and passive voice" (I'd want "voices" there, but that's probably pushing things). Native English-speakers without some kind of language impairment will form and use actives and passives, of course -- just record them long enough and you'll get both. Read one way, a large set of these CC objectives basically boil down to, "determine if any of your students are second language learners or have language impairments"; read another, they're instead "determine if your students have specific metalinguistic knowledge."
>
> Is there anything approaching an official statement about which one of those readings is intended? If so, does anyone know where it is? Apologies if I'm asking something that's totally obvious. The course is one I haven't taught in a couple of years, and the switch to the CC in my state was in the early phases the last time around.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bill Spruiell
>
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--
John Chorazy
English II and III, Academic and Honors
Advisor, Panther Press
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
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To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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