Dick,
    You have espoused a position (if I followed it right) that I would
fundamentally agree with: that the past perfect is recognizable first
and foremost as a form--had plus past participle. And that whether it
is being used appropriately or inappropriately, effectively or
ineffectively, it remains past perfect, just as a screw driver remains
a screw driver even when you use it to poke someone in the eye.
Questions about effective use can be thought of as separate from that.

Craig >


Craig,
>
> I agree completely, and I look forward to every one of Herb's posts. But
> people do continue to respond to Brad. If doing the same thing again and
> again and expecting a different result is insanity, I wonder who is
> crazier,
> those who keep taking Brad's bait or those (like you and me) who keep
> trying
> to get others to *stop *taking his bait.
>
> Dick
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>>  Dick,
>>     The idea for this most recent conversation is to come up with a view
>> of
>> the past perfect that pleases the rest of us. Whether it pleases Brad is
>> not
>> important.  It is insanity to expect a conversation with Brad to
>> accomplish
>> anything new, so our goal should be to discuss it with each other. I am
>> looking forward to reading what Herb comes up with. I expect Brad to
>> react
>> angrily to that, but his response is irrelevant.
>>    I may be wrong, but I think reacting to Brad has kept us from a
>> productive discussion.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 2/16/2011 3:51 PM, Dick Veit wrote:
>>
>> If we would all try just a little harder, explain the past perfect just
>> a
>> little more clearly, try just one or two or fifty more times to get
>> you-know-who to engage in productive dialogue, surely then he will see
>> reason and all will be well and we can turn to other topics. We won't
>> know
>> if we don't try many, many, many more times, will we?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dick
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Geoffrey Layton
>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>>  :)
>>>
>>> Geoff Layton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 08:45:46 -0500
>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: insanity
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
>>> results.
>>>
>>
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