John,
It surprises me, given all that we now know about teaching writing, that writing "for a variety of audiences" is not a routine part of the secondary English classroom.
Even when I'm teaching literature, especially as Gen Ed course, I like to let students write about the "excellence" of a story or poem or play. They get to choose the text and determine what makes it excellent and simply need to be reflective and articulate, helping a reader see the text through that lens. They are, in effect, developing their own aesthetic. I have tough questions to ask as they work their way through it, but it at least gives the student a chance to own the ideas in their text and to share those ideas with each other.
I try to live by the rule that the student owns the text. It's hard to square that with outside directed corrections.
Of course, we also need to help students live in a world of harsh judgment. Like everyone else, I'm struggling to be helpful.
Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Dews-Alexander
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Interjections
Craig, I definitely agree that removing interjections from student writing will solve no problems. It's merely one small piece. Composition instruction is NOT my specialty (it is, in fact, the area in which I feel most lacking as an educator), but I focus a great deal on creating agreement (or at least a compelling point) in student writing. For that reason, interjections are almost always ineffectual because they seem to skip ahead to a "we all agree" position.
I like what you have to say about the tendency to edit out human experience, and I agree that it is far too tempting to take a concept like "cut the interjections" to an extreme. I used to be guilty of this, and I found that, more than once, I was stifling some fantastic narrative writers whose ethos really sprang from their life experiences. So, I suppose my approach is focused strictly on "don't take a shortcut -- actually get me to wherever it is you're taking me." If a writer can integrate interjections in an effective manner that actually contributes to their purpose, then that is certainly a viable usage.
I wish we had more time in the secondary classroom to write for a variety of audiences. I feel cramped in that regard.
John
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
John,
In a rough kind of sense, I agree with you, but one pattern we can find in the work of successful writers is a generous metadiscourse, comments within the text about the text as a text. In that sense, "I agree" is more useful than "gee" or "wow." A good writer is often manifestly present within a text, though perhaps in a way different from the way that happens in speech. "They Say/I Say" offers academic "templates" for it.
If we tell students that a formal text is bereft of human perspective, we are swinging the pendulum too far the other way. It reminds me of the days when we couldn't write "I," but had to write "one," as in "One gets up around six in the morning and likes to read the paper over one's Cheerios." There is a huge disjunct between the formal stance and the uniqueness of the detail. One result is that we edit out experience and produce disembodied thoughts.
I also wonder to what extent we should preemptively establish what makes an effective text. Do our students have anything to add to that conversation? Do they ever get a chance to write to each other or do we simply assume it's all written for a teacher?
I like the idea that we don't want to sound self-important. (But what could be more self-important than much overly formal writing? Our students are often encouraged to present themselves as experts when they are anything but.) We also don't want to assume agreement without having done the work of creating it. I'm not convinced that editing out interjections will get us there.
Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of John Dews-Alexander
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interjections
Absolutely, Carol. This is an issue of formality or linguistic register. Interjections carry more weight when with friends; I think it is Deborah Tannen who says that interjections have a primarily social function, expressing more of a shared, group feeling/affirmation. When used in isolation, especially in formal writing, it comes off as assumptive and self-centered. Why assume that the reader will be able to partake in the emotive force of the interjection? More importantly, why assume that the reader agrees with you? Without that agreement, interjections are useless in my opinion; other forms are necessary to make a point accessible to all readers.
John
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Carol Morrison <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Somewhat related to but not quite in the same vein of Scott's "Bad English" thread, is the questionable use of interjections in academic writing. Is it safe to tell students that interjections are typically not found in academic or formal writing? I have a student who had a continuous string of interjections in his response paper he wrote to one of the essays in the text on marriage. "Yikes!" "Not this guy!" "Wow!" were some of the responses he would write following a summary of what the author stated. He also began many of his sentences with "Yes, I agree that..." or "No thanks,..." How can I explain that this is not an appropriate style for a college essay? On the informal to formal scale I explained in class, this is what I would consider too informal. Do you agree?
Thanks.
Carol
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