Peter,
Am I reading you well? Are you thanking Bill Spruiell for "his
attempt to maintain a tone that is respectful on this list"? And how
did Bill do that? By forwarding a message from a "member"(?) of this
forum who never misses the opportunity to atack anyone who disagrees
with her OPINIONS? I have participated in many forums, but I never
had to deal with a man or woman so mean and vicious as Johanna Rubba.
I am a member of the Linguist List, and I post there from time to
time. All messages posted on the list are first reviewed by two or
three moderators, and those messages that lack etiquette or contain
personal attacks are rejected. Some of the messages I have posted on
the ATEG forum would not have made it on the Linguist List because
they were improper. I am glad that some of the forum members have
been so kind to remind me that those messages were not written with
the respect and politeness due to each member of this list.
It is a standard matter in academia that ad hominems are not proper.
In fact they are called, as you know, *fallacies.* When an individual
attacks the person instead of politely and profesionally discussing
the merits of an idea or an opinion, that individual is committing
an "academic crime." True professionals do not indulge in such manner
of behavior.
Johanna Rubba could not post on the Lingust Lists. The messages she
posts in the ATEG forum are so full of hatred, so vicious, so mean,
and devoid of any etiquette that no forum would put up with her for
too long. It is amazing me that people like Bill Spruell, who should
know better, forward her extremely rude messages to the other forum
members. Look how she begins the message Bill Spruell forwarded from
her recently:
"Phil Bralich is obviously of the same school as Ed Vavra and, in
many of his past posts, Eduard Hanganu -- their main agenda seems to
be to deliberately misinterpret and belittle the beliefs, aims, and
>aspirations of the people in ATEG (not all of its members, I might
say)who are engaged in a very long-term, and very, very young program
to revise the way grammar is taught as part of language arts
education in the USA."
Well, tell me what does her statement have to do with the discussions
on grammar terminology? What does it have it to do with the progress
of the goals of this forum? Her statement is nothing but a MALICIOUS,
MEAN, and LIBELLOUS personal attack on members of the forum who did
not do anything to deserve it. And how did Bill Spruell work "to
maintain a tone that is respectful on this list" by forwarding such a
message from Johanna Rubba to the members of this forum?
Johanna Rubba is not only mean, ugly, and vicious. She doesn't even
know to WRITE. I have collected all her messages, printed them, and
read them carefully. All of them are written in a high school student
style, with no focus and direction, constantly drifting from one idea
to another, full of bias and discriminatory statements. Such raving
and confusion is hard to find even in the most unskilled junior high
school writing.
Those who teach college Argument know that in order for an argument
to be well written opposing perspectives need to be given their place
in the debate. But Johanna Rubba is ALWAYS RIGHT. All those who
disagree with her are wrong, do not have the right education, and do
not know what they are talking about.
Johanna Rubba's messages are an EXAMPLE of how messages *should not
be written* on any forum, under any circumstance. Her writing skills
make me feel ashamed as a linguist, and her mean and vicious behavior
makes me sick. I sent her two personal messages of apology in which I
tried to appease her demons, but those messages did no good. Johanna
Rubba is a BULLY, and all members who forward her mean and vicious
messages to this forum are as guilty as she is of a behavior which
should never be allowed on the ATEG list. Her messages contain
*libel*, that is "defamation by written or printed words, pictures,
or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures" and she might
need to remember that liabel could constitute grounds for legal
action.
Johanna Rubba seems to give me some "credit" after I wrote certain
messages in which I admitted that I, like all human beings, could
have erred in what I had stated:
"Eduard started out making all kinds of claims based on his
credentials in linguistics, only to back off from them as strong
evidence was produced that countered them at least he shows some
willingness to admit that he might be wrong about some things."
I regret to say that she she has misunderstood me. I *backed off*
because I was shocked and apalled by her uncommonly mean and ugly
behavior, and not because "strong evidence was produced that
countered" my "claims." Johanna Rubba has not produced on this forum
any "strong evidence that countered* my arguments. All she did was to
attack me viciously and maliciously, and I was terrified by her
ugliness.
I believe that the members of the ATEG group have come together in
order to discuss matters of importance, in order to contribute to a
reform in the way grammar perceived in the American education at this
time. We should be free to express our opinions and perspectives
without the fear that some bully will try to tear us apart for what
we thing or believe. I also believe that our behavior with one
another needs to be professional, kind, and courteous.
We are an open forum, that is, accessible to anyone. What if some of
our students would want to get acquainted with what we are doing and
saying here? Would we be good EXAMPLES of EDUCATORS to them, or we
would look like a "dog eats dog" group of people?
I make an appeal to all members of this forum: Please, let's act and
write in a manner that will not embarrass us later. Do not condone or
allow messages or comments written in a malicious, vicious manner. Do
not forward messages that attack individuals instead of politely and
respectfully discussing ideas.
Craig, Herb, I know that you are good men, true educators. You don't
have anything to say about what Johanna has been doing to this group?
Are you still going to forward her mean, libellous, and vicious
messages to the members? Are the other members going to allow her to
bully those who do not agree with her? I believe we need to stop this
childish, irresponsible behavior and begin focussing our energies on
the work that Ed Vavra and Martha Kolln have been dedicating 20 years
of their lives.
Eduard
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Peter Adams wrote...
>I want to add my thanks to Bill Spruiell for his well reasoned post
>concerning the discoverability of the word classes and to thank him
for his attempt to
>maintain a tone that is respectful on this list.
>
>Paul's reply seems to indicate his failure to understand the points
Bill made
>rather than the other way around. Bill did not mention "trifling
matters
>such as irregular plurals." He pointed out that large classes of
words that
>are normally considered nouns are not pluralizable, which is quite
different
>from being "irregular" in the formation of their plurals.
>
>
>
>Peter Adams
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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