She does, but now that we've addressed the netiquette question, we
might consider getting back to the reason why Brock posted the
exchange in the first place.

When I read through the entire discussion today, I got the feeling
of finding myself in a strange city where familiar things suddenly
looked slightly out of kilter.  Seeing the teaching of grammar
from the point of view of concerned, intelligent, sometimes
ill-informed but unquestionably canny teachers, I see at least the
following things:

a perception of what grammar is that differs from that shared by
most of us who teach grammar to teachers,

an assumed body of research and of authorities on grammar that is
different from what I have seen discussed elsewhere,

a serious grappling with WHY one might teach grammar and, whatever
one's reasons, how that question is related to WHAT one teaches.

These are sensibilities that I find myself needing exposure as our
faculty consider how to train teachers to work with the new
Indiana language arts standards, standards that demand a knowledge
of grammar that few of my undergraduate English majors have
attained.

I don't plan on teaching methods for teaching grammar.  My role is
content.  We have methods people, and we pretty obviously have to
work with them as well, because they're much closer to the middle
school teacher's sensibilities than I am, and they have more to
say than they realize about what future language arts teachers
need to know.

This is the discussion I'd like to see carried on in conjunction
with participants from the middle school list.

Herb Stahlke

<<< [log in to unmask] 12/20  5:00p >>>
Gretchen has *excellent* points for all of us...

Judy

At 03:57 PM 12/20/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear listserv members,
>     Getchen has good points, and I regret forwarding the NCTE
discussion
>impulsively.  I was sure members would find it interesting, as
they have,
>but the listservs do create a semi-public/semi-private space
where the rules
>are fluid and common sense and courtesy are important.
Gretchen's
>suggestion of an invitation would certainly have been a
preferable route.
>My apologies to the NCTE members involved.
>
>Brock Haussamen
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gretchen Lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 3:15 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: NCTE Middle level grammar talk, Pt. 2
>
>
>In a message dated 12/20/2000 11:49:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>[log in to unmask] writes:<<  but if I am, the netiquette
is
> frequently violated. >>
>
>Judy,
>
>What I'm objecting to here is a missed opportunity.  There has
been an
>interesting discussion of grammar on NCTE (to which I belong).
Four or five
>teachers have posted looking for information, and Nancy Patterson
was the
>main respondent, although Candy Lindquist and Jerome also
contributed
>valuable posts.  Brock then quotes Nancy here without
asking/telling her,
>and
>he invites comment from the ATEG list.
>
>What if he had written to the NCTE list and Nancy INVITING her
and all the
>other posters who were interested in the grammar discussion to
come on over
>to ATEG for a discussion with a lot of people who are fascinated
with
>grammar?
>
>I keep hearing that ATEG wants more teachers of hs/ms/elementary
to join in
>the discussion.  Wouldn't an invitation rather than an ambush
(sorry - I
>think it's rude, and I'm not alone!) have contributed more to the
general
>discussion of grammar?
>
>It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when someone who is very
accessible
>(and I know Nancy personally - don't always agree with her, but
she is
>always
>willing to discuss her views-) has her words reposted out of the
context of
>a
>long discussion without a chance to clarify or defend her view
point.
>
>I originally joined ATEG because of Nancy (and Candy).  I wanted
to see what
>the "other side" had to say, if indeed ATEG was in opposition to
her views.
>I stayed because of the discussion.  How many others would do the
same if
>invited?
>
>Gretchen in San Jose
>[log in to unmask]
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
>at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/