Marshall et al,

Reminds me of a quote from M. B. Parkes, author of "Pause and Effect:  
An Introduction to the History of Punctuation in the West":   
"Punctuation is and always has been a personal matter."
And don't you love the fact that the semicolon in Greek is a symbol  
for a question mark?  In Greek, our semicolon represented by the upper  
part of a colon.
As for introductory subordinate clauses (in English), I opened the  
nearest-at-hand non-fiction book I had:  Its Prologue starts with an  
"If"-clause.  And it's not unusual in the best contemporary writing  
for authors to punctuate "because" clauses as sentences.  Especially  
if they follow a question.
Thanks, Marshall.

Ed Schuster

On Apr 14, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Myers, Marshall wrote:

> Fellow Grammarians,
>
> One of the most frustrating part of teaching writing is that there  
> isn’t just one punctuation system for all types of prose.
>
> Various academic disciplines punctuate different ways. Add to that,  
> that punctuation in the popular media differs even from those in  
> academia. In fact, even within English as a discipline, technical  
> writers punctuate somewhat differently from people writing in  
> literature. To make it even more complex, the British punctuate  
> differently than we do.
>
> Indeed, punctuation rules are very confusing. I try to make my  
> students are of this fact, so except for clarifying meaning in a  
> sentence, I tolerate a wide variety of punctuation styles.
>
> Marshall
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
>
>
> Crystal:
>
> “It can create an awkwardly structured sentence if not done  
> correctly” applies to pretty much any construction, I’d think; it  
> ends up being circular. The issue is whether initial because-clauses  
> are more frequently awkward than non-initial ones. I suspect they’re  
> not, although getting some kind of outside measurement of that would  
> be a fun headache (“Anybody got an automatic tagging program for  
> awkwardness? Anybody?”).  Given the danger of confirmation bias in  
> this kind of endeavor, one thing we probably should not rely on is  
> intuitive judgments about how often-misused a construction, or item,  
> is.
>
> --- Bill Spruiell
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] On Behalf Of Crystal Edmonds
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:10 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
>
>
> Geoff and TJ,
> I am not discouraging students to begin a sentence with the  
> conjunction "because."  It is not incorrect but it can create a  
> awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly.
>
>
> C. Edmonds, Chair
> Associate in Arts
> English and Humanities
> Robeson Community College
> PO Box 1420
> Lumberton, NC 28359
> (910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
> (910) 272-3328 (fax)
> [log in to unmask]
> RCC 4 R.E.A.L.  Reading Engages Active Learning
> A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
> >>> On 4/13/2011 at 2:17 PM, in message  
> <[log in to unmask]>, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>  
> wrote:
> Geoff,
>     Now I'm confused. Here's what I replied to:
>
> TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not  
> "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered  
> awkward depending on the useage.
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>     I thought you were saying that "because" might be discouraged  
> because it is awkward to begin sentences that way.  Now you are  
> asking US for examples to back up your point. Or am I missing  
> something?
>    I have a friend who says it's a miracle that we ever understand  
> each other, the possibilities for misunderstanding being as great as  
> they are. Here we are as living proof.
>    Any grammatical construction, including sentences starting with  
> "because" as the head of a subordinate clause, will be awkward if  
> they don't fit the discourse purposes.
>
>      I would be interested to see  examples. My earlier ones were an  
> attempt to ADD the fact that starting with these clauses is often  
> well motivated.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 1:31 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
> Craig,
>
> All I'm asking for is to "give awkwardness a chance"! When is it  
> awkward to start a sentence with because?
>
> Geoff
>
>    Starting a sentence with because can be awkward. Agreed.
>
> On 4/13/2011 12:32 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
> Craig -
>
> The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here -  
> that the rhetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on  
> whether "because" starts the sentence? That is totally off the  
> point.  Re-read my post - nowhere did I argue against starting a  
> sentence with "because" - I know the rhetorical choices involved.  
> But you merely buttress this well-established point. That wasn't the  
> point. Instead, go back in your treasure trove and come up with  
> examples of what Edmonds was suggesting - namely, that there are  
> awkward examples of starting sentences with "because" - you have  
> many more resources than I do! Instead of flaying a dead horse,  
> let's advance the conversation!
>
> You point out that "awkwardness depends on context" - this is what I  
> was trying to point out, and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to  
> point out - let's address that point! When is it awkward to start a  
> sentence with "because"?
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:14:35 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Geoff, and all,
>     The reverse is equally true. Consider "Because you were late, we  
> lost everything" as opposed to "We lost everything because you were  
> late." Since losing everything seems a more important piece of  
> information, the first seems smoother (more congruent with meaning)  
> to my ear. It also allows for two pints of emphasis.
>     Introductory word groups of all kinds (anything other than the  
> main clause grammatical subject) are recognized as marked theme in  
> systemic functional grammar. They are intonationally marked in  
> speech. They function as a stepping off point for the mesage  
> structure of the sentence. It is not a trivial choice. Awkwardness  
> would depend on context, not on some arbitrary formal rule.
>     Unfortunately, English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an  
> alternative to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you hear  
> the pause is about as useful as "a sentence is a complete thought,"  
> dangerous because it oversimplifies. Intonation is a grammatical  
> system, and paying attention to it leads us into the heart of  
> syntax--more appropriately, into the heart of the grammar-meaning  
> connection.
>    We don't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The  
> punctuation should work in harmony with those choices. Most students  
> don't get very far on hearing alone. It is also one thing to know  
> how you would say it, another to anticipate how a reader would hear  
> it on the basis of what you have provided (or failed to provide) as  
> clues.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
> TJ - Not to quibble, but I think the emphasis was on "awkward," not  
> "incorrect," and starting a sentence with because can be considered  
> awkward depending on the useage.
>
> Geoff Layton
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:38:37 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Crystal,
> Your encouragement of your students is a matter of choice, but I  
> don't see that beginning a
> sentence with "Because" is incorrect.
>
> tj
>
>
> On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am, Crystal Edmonds wrote:
> The subordinating conjunction "because" is used to link the  
> dependent clause to the independent clause. I encourage my students  
> to place such subordinate clauses at the end of the sentence so that  
> there are no errors in comma usage. However, many students want to  
> begin a sentence with "because". While it is not incorrect, the  
> sentence structure does appear awkward.
>
> Using "for" illustrates students' sentence variety. That is  
> important for me.
>
>
>
> C. Edmonds, Chair
> Associate in Arts
> English and Humanities
> Robeson Community College
> PO Box 1420
> Lumberton, NC 28359
> (910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
> (910) 272-3328 (fax)
> [log in to unmask]
> RCC 4 R.E.A.L.  Reading Engages Active Learning
>
> A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>
> >>> On 4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM, in message <[log in to unmask] 
> >, "Katz, Seth" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Traditional lists of coordinating conjunctions included "for" (hence  
> the "F" in the acronym "FANBOYS" for remembering the list of  
> coordinating conjunctions); but it seems to me that the use of "for"  
> as a coordinating conjunction in English has largely been succeeded  
> by the use of "because."
>
> I find I'm not sure here what the distinction is between a  
> coordinating conjunction and a subordinating conjunction. Help?
>
> Dr. Seth Katz
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> Bradley University
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of T.  
> J. Ray
> Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
>
>
> I believe you're right in thinking he feels this is a coordinate  
> conjunction.  My understanding is that
> "because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded  
> with a comma.  I just
> wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to the committee's  
> attention, folks who evidently
> don't see a problem with it as no one had marked any of these before  
> I saw the MSS.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am, "Dixon, Jack" wrote:
>
> Focusing on the obvious, I suspect the writer believes that  
> "because" functions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a  
> subordinating. Does the student punctuate most subordinating clauses  
> that follow the independent clause this way, or do he make this  
> mistake with "because" only?
>
> I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical Grammar_  
> addresses the few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set  
> off with commas.
>
> ________________________________________
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