John and Craig,

In his essay "In Defense of the Absolute," Francis Christensen mentions that
"with" can begin an absolute phrase. He calls it an "empty" word, and
elsewhere calls it a "marker" of the absolute. It can be deleted, and you
still have the absolute phrase. It is especially useful to alert the reader
when it begins the sentence.

With the newcomers hopeless and forlorn, and the old team worn out by
twenty-five hundred miles of continuous trail, the outlook was anything but
bright. [Jack London]


Christensen also gives credit to Curme
for recognizing that in popular speech, especially in Irish, the
construction is sometimes introduced by "and" ("Did you not hear his
reverence, and he speaking to you now?" [Synge]) and that in this
construction, as elsewhere in popular speech, the nominative is
often replaced by the accusative ("It will be a very good match for
me, m'm, me being an orphan girl" [Wells]).

-- 
Don Stewart
Write for College
______________________
Keeper of the memory and method
of Dr. Francis Christensen

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Atchley, Clinton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> In traditional grammar you find a similar use of objective case pronouns
> when they function as subjects of infinitives in a sentence like "Bill
> wanted him to go home."  Here the infinitive "to go" functions as the
> direct object since what Bill wanted was the action of going to take
> place.  Bill does not want "him"; "him" is the agent of the action of
> the infinitive.  It's quite common actually.  "We consider him to be
> completely honest."  "The teacher let us decorate the room."  "We left
> after seeing him break the record."
>
> Clinton Atchley, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of English
> Box 7652
> 1100 Henderson Street
> Henderson State University
> Arkadelphia, AR  71999
> Phone: 870.230.5276
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> Web:  http://www.hsu.edu/atchlec
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of STAHLKE, HERBERT F
> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Correct?
>
> I agree that they are nominative absolutes, but I'll follow up on my
> earlier comment on changes in the function of objective pronouns.  This
> is another instance of what were traditionally object pronouns taking on
> pragmatic roles and marking focus.  Like Craig, I would probably use the
> subjective forms, but these are among the more acceptable uses of object
> pronouns in non-object position.
>
> Herb
>
> Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
> Emeritus Professor of English
> Ball State University
> Muncie, IN  47306
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Crow [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: November 30, 2008 9:36 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Correct?
>
> You are dead on as usual.  I see now that calling them absolutes is a
> much more logical analysis.  The possibly understood "with" is great!
>
> Thanks, Craig.
> John
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Craig Hancock
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> John,
>  I would classify them as "absolutes", which I would define as subject
> bearing participle clauses. (Traditional grammar calls them phrases.)
>  My own preference would be for "he" and "I" in the subject roles, but
> these are also commonly introduced by "with", which could be thought of
> as understood here. "I slipped my backpack off, and we sat down at one
> of the metal tables overlooking the pool, with him sipping his Mountain
> Dew and me groping for pen and paper." Maybe the writer drafted it with
> "with" and then took it out, leaving the objective pronouns.
>  Hope that helps.
>
> Craig
>  >
>
>
> What are the structures appended to the end of the main clause below?
> > They
> > feel like participles, but they have pseudo-subjects.  Is it correct
> to
> > use
> > the objective pronouns in these structures?
> >
> > *I slipped my backpack off, and we sat down at one of the metal tables
> > overlooking the pool, him sipping his Mountain Dew and me groping for
> a
> > pen
> > and paper.
> >
> > *I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
> >
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-- 
Don Stewart
Write for College
______________________
Keeper of the memory and method
of Dr. Francis Christensen

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