At least you didn't write 'sight'!

To clarify, I meant that the standards were slipping, not the NY Times itself
(their reputation still holds well with me). However, I'll try to dig up a
couple of examples (I usually don't save them., so it may take me some time).
Also, I am aware of the phenomenon you mention. Swift and Pope and Defoe all
fell prey to it centuries ago.

Paul D. 

--- "Veit, Richard" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Yikes! I wrote "any examples you could site." 
> 
>  
> 
> Standards are slipping!
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________
> 
>  
> 
> Richard Veit
> 
> Department of English, UNCW
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Veit, Richard
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Changes of register (was: Adverb of Manner)
> 
>  
> 
> Paul,
> 
>  
> 
> The editors I work with on my books are anything but careless, and I've
> been impressed by their knowledge of conventions and attention to
> detail. I'd be surprised if the NY Times hires editors who are any less
> skilled. I read the Sunday Times in print and the daily online version
> and am not aware of their "having slipped a great deal." Do you mean
> that they have changed their conventions, or that they no longer
> consistently observe their conventions? I'd be interested in seeing any
> examples you could site.
> 
>  
> 
> I know you are aware of the language-is-deteriorating phenomenon. For
> those who don't, there are ample examples from every period of history
> in every language of statements that usually run "A generation ago,
> people spoke better/wrote better/had higher standards, but today
> standards have slipped/people are now ignorant/lazy/the language has
> deteriorated." The problem is that people said exactly the same thing a
> generation ago/ a hundred years ago/ five hundred years ago-and every
> period in between. The evident conclusion is that this is a
> psychological phenomenon rather that a linguistic phenomenon.
> 
>  
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong about deterioration in journalism. I would
> like to see support for statements such as the one you made about the
> Times.
> 
>  
> 
> Dick Veit
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________
> 
>  
> 
> Richard Veit
> 
> Department of English, UNCW
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul E. Doniger
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Changes of register (was: Adverb of Manner)
> 
>  
> 
> I could be sticking my neck out, but it seems to me that journalism has
> relaxed its rules excessively in recent years, or the quality of writing
> and editing has been lowered. I say this knowing full well that I am
> married to a newspaper editor who holds very high standards; also, The
> NY Times holds the reputation for highest standards in the industry
> (they literally wrote the book on journailstic writing). However, they
> all seem to have slipped a great deal -- even public radio has become
> careless (if this is the right word) in it's use of formal language. I'm
> not sure where this comes from, but I suspect that there is a direct
> correlation between this and the lack of formal (I did not say
> traditional!) grammar instruction in the lower grades (K-8? K-12?).
> 
>  
> 
> I would not accept a change of register as standard simply because of
> its use in the media, but I suspect I am in a minority.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul D.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Adams <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:52:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Adverb of Manner
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/16/06 9:49:55 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is the case that as the language changes it tends to change in
> informal registers before the change creeps into more formal usage.
> Teaching register as a part of teaching grammar is a good way to
> acquaint students with notions of appropriateness and of change in
> progress.
> 
> 
> Good point, Herb.  But I guess what I'm puzzled by is how to know when a
> change has been accepted for writing in a fair(ly) formal register . . .
> like the New York Times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Adams
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