What is the sum of one and zero?  are it one?  or is it one?  Math  
does not follow the grammatical rules.  I can count the number of  
people who have responded to this thread.  But if I use math to count  
them, I will come up with an amount and not a number of people.


On Jun 16, 2008, at 9:03 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:

> I've heard "two plus two are four," or more frequently "two twos  
> are four" from British and West African speakers, but that goes  
> back a few years.
>
> Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
> Emeritus Professor of English
> Ball State University
> Muncie, IN  47306
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar  
> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dee Allen-Kirkhouse  
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: June 16, 2008 6:50 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
> That's a mathematical equation, and according to the American  
> Heritage dictionary, the correct usage is "two plus two is four."   
> Just goes to show that our elementary school arithmetic teachers  
> didn't know grammar.  ;-)
>
> Dee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul E. Doniger<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 6/16/2008 2:42:42 PM
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
> And yet, all through elementary school, we were hammered with  
> reminders that "two plus two are (not is) four."
>
>
>
> Paul D.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carol Morrison <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:24:15 PM
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
> This is from The Writer's Digest Grammar Desk Reference by Gary  
> Lutz & Diane Stevenson:
>
> "Do not confuse the prepositions plus, in addition to, along with,  
> and as well as with the coordinating conjunction and. And is the  
> only word that can unite two or more nouns or pronouns to form a  
> compound-additive subject. The nounal or pronominal contents of a  
> prepositional phrase beginning with plus, in addition to, along  
> with, or as well as have no influence on the singularity or  
> plurality of the verb of the clause, and any such prepositional  
> phrase is almost always set off with commas at both ends" (86).
>
> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 12:18 PM
>
>
> A quick look at a few dictionaries shows that "as well as" can be both
> preposition and conjunction. A quick google search shows a huge number
> of examples of "as well as" as conjunction, but not in the subject
> slot, which may be a reaction to the usage difficulties around it. I
> won't have access to the OED until tomorrow.
>    Typically, Merriam-Webster college dictionary lists "brave as  
> well as
> loyal" as an example of "as well as" as conjunction.
>    Why we would have to treat a compound so created as singular in  
> subject
> slot is beyond me.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> Hi again everyone,
>> &nbsp;
>> I have&nbsp;another reference: A Writer's Resource (second
> edition) by
>> Maimon, Peritz, and
>> Yancey. The authors warn, "[do] not lose sight of the subject when a
> word
>> group separates it from the verb" and "[i]f&nbsp; a word
> group beginning
>> with as well as, along with, or in addition to follows a singular  
>> subject,
>> the subject does not become plural" (478).
>> Their example:&nbsp; My teacher, as well as other faculty members,
> opposes
>> the new school policy.
>>
>> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books
>> &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote:
>>
>> From: Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books
> &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
>> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Morning everyone
>> &nbsp;
>> I might have predicted that my very first ATEG post would get me into
>> trouble.&nbsp; So cool to find some colleagues who actually care  
>> about
>> such things!
>> &nbsp;
>> Unfortunately, Dick, I cannot yet cite an authority for you.&nbsp;
> Indeed
>> two of my own favorite authorities, Foerster &amp; Steadman, in
> Writing
>> and Thinking, suggest that my usage is appropriate "only in informal,
>> colloquial discourse" though they seem to waver on that&nbsp;
> principle
>> elsewhere in W&amp;T.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;F&amp;S call
> this sentence, "He, as
>> well as his friends, was present" right but awkward.&nbsp; I
> suspect
>> they'd use the same classification for the S&amp;W
> sentence.&nbsp; Though
>> without those commas, it strikes me that "as well as" means
> simply
>> "and."&nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> I'll forward the question to one of my teachers, Lynn
> Troyka.&nbsp; Maybe
>> we can get some consensus from her.&nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> BTW, Craig, I&nbsp;offered up&nbsp;"objective"&nbsp;
> a bit
>> prematurely.&nbsp; I'm still working out that theory, but I'll
> get back to
>> you.
>> &nbsp;
>> Michael
>> &nbsp;
>> &nbsp;
>> -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"
>> &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;: --------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>> &nbsp;
>> You are saying that you disagree with Strunk and White (quoted by  
>> Carol
>> below). Are there equivalent authorities you can cite? I am not  
>> saying
>> ?authorities? are ipso facto right (for example, you can still find
>> textbooks that pronounce it ungrammatical to end a sentence with a
>> preposition), but in matters like this there is often an agreed upon
>> consensus.
>> &nbsp;
>> Dick
>> &nbsp;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Keith Pen  
>> Ultimate
>> Rare Books
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:30 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Dick et al
>>
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Ask yourself why "his speech as well as his manners is
> objectionable"
>> doesn't sound right.&nbsp; In that sentence I suspect that
> "as well as his
>> manners" serves as a delayed, emphatic additional subject--something
> akin
>> to: also especially his manners!--and is therefore and thereby
>> plural.&nbsp;&nbsp;Remember, if the subject is plural, the verb
> should be
>> as well.&nbsp; Many subjects succeeded by&nbsp;"as well
> as" are intended
>> indeed to be singular.&nbsp; The subject/example you provided, in  
>> most
>> contexts, emphatically is NOT.&nbsp; Grammar, like language and
> concepts,
>> is contextual and objective.
>>
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Michael&nbsp;&nbsp;
>>
>> -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"
>> &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;: --------------
>> Thanks, Carol. That is most helpful. Is it is. I knew that  
>> intellectually
>> but wish it sounded right too. For example, change ?manner? to
> ?manners?
>> in the Strunk and White example and it doesn?t seem as clear cut:
> "His
>> speech as well as his manners is objectionable."
>> &nbsp;
>> Dick Veit
>> &nbsp;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison
>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 4:11 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>> &nbsp;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> According to Strunk and White in The Elements of Style, "[a] singular
>> subject remains singular even if other nouns are connected to it  
>> by with,
>> as well as, in addition to, except, together with, and no less  
>> than (21).
>> So I believe that your last example would take the verb "is".
> Strunk and
>> White give&nbsp;the following example: "His speech as well as his
> manner
>> is objectionable" (21).
>> I'm not sure if the comma between "society at large" and
> "as well as"
>> changes that in your sentence though.
>> &nbsp;
>> --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Veit, Richard &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote:
>>
>> From: Veit, Richard &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
>> Subject: a subject-verb-agreement question
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:32 PM
>>
>>
>> A little help, please, with subject/verb agreement in a sentence.  
>> These I
>> have no trouble with:
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Good policy will come when society at large is educated about HPV.
>> Good policy will come when at-risk individuals are educated about  
>> HPV.
>> Good policy will come when society at large and at-risk  
>> individuals are
>> educated about HPV.
>> &nbsp;
>> And pretty sure about this:
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Good policy will come when society at large (not just at-risk  
>> individuals)
>> is educated about HPV.
>> &nbsp;
>> But what about this one?
>> &nbsp;
>>
>> Good policy will come when society at large, as well as at-risk
>> individuals, is/are educated about HPV.
>> &nbsp;
>> Do the commas make the second phrase an aside so that the verb should
>> agree with ?society? only (i.e., ?is?)? Or do we treat ?as well
> as? as
>> equivalent to ?and,? making ?are? the right choice? I seek your
> informed
>> guidance on the matter. Any specific reference to authority is  
>> especially
>> welcome.
>> &nbsp;
>> Dick
>> ________________________________
>> Richard Veit
>> Department of English
>> University of North Carolina Wilmington
>> &nbsp;
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