Just one comment, Linda.

I tell students (and teachers) that if a passive sentence seems weak 
or out of place in a particular context, the problem is not that it's 
in the passive voice: The problem is nearly always that the sentence 
has an ineffective topic and/or focus. The passive allows us put a 
particular noun phrase or nominal in subject--i.e., topic--position.

The "pass" marginal comment ought never to be used--even for an 
awkward or ineffective passive: The comment ought to focus on the 
real problem.

Martha




>Interesting thread! A couple of quick comments in response to Craig 
>and Nancy re:
>
>" ..the passive does tend to make writing impersonal. That is one 
>reason, though, that
>it shows up so much in scientific discourse. It doesn't matter who
>heated the mixture for seven minutes at four hundred degrees, just that
>it was done and can be replicated. (Notice the paasives at the end of
>the last sentence.) Impersonal is not always good, not always bad, but
>something we can benefit from noticing."
>
>
>1. Passive does not always make writing impersonal. For example, if 
>I write: "I was delighted by your post," I think that I am writing 
>something MORE personal than "Your post delighted me."  The 
>difference, of course, is where I want to place focus, on the effect 
>or cause (or beginning or endpoint) of the event: on my becoming 
>delighted OR on your post causing me to become delighted.
>
>2. Scientific writing has become more and more 'impersonal' over the 
>years.  Earlier examples of scientific discourse make frequent use 
>of the first person and are much more narrative in nature than the 
>scientific language of today.
>
>3. In business writing, it is often very important to use passive 
>and other strategies in order to deny or obfuscate responsibility, 
>lest the business make itself liable. 
>
>4. When I deal with passive in the classroom, I find it more 
>effective to talk about it in terms of its semantics, particularly 
>in terms of agency and causality, rather than in terms of its 
>syntactic structure (which is what students have heard for years and 
>which some of them have never quite understood).
>
>Good discussion--
>"another" Linda
>
>Linda Di Desidero, Ph.D.
>Associate Professor
>Assistant Academic Director of Writing
>University of Maryland University College
>3501 University Boulevard, East
>Adelphi, MD 20783
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Craig Hancock
>Sent: Sat 3/8/2008 9:42 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: past perfect--a final note
>
>
>
>Nancy,
>    I like the last part of your post the best. You're right; the passive
>does tend to make writing impersonal. That is one reason, though, that
>it shows up so much in scientific discourse. It doesn't matter who
>heated the mixture for seven minutes at four hundred degrees, just that
>it was done and can be replicated. (Notice the paasives at the end of
>the last sentence.) Impersonal is not always good, not always bad, but
>something we can benefit from noticing.
>    I'm not as happy with the idea of "complete picture" because it assumes
>that each and every sentence is a complete and separate statement, not
>tied to discourse context or situation. If someone asks "how are you
>doing with preparations for the party," you might very well say "the
>cake is baked, but we need to pick up the drinks." The baker of the
>cake may be already known or irrelevant.
>    There are functional approaches to language that are highly systematic.
>I think we need a comprehensive understanding of language before we
>give out prescriptive rules (the old "first, do no harm" maxim.) I have
>said on list many times that I feel a disinterested, primarily
>descriptive linguistics cannot solve the problem. Because people want
>advice on using language, they turn to the handbooks. It's hard to
>blame people for doing that when they don't have a practical
>alternative.
>    Linda points out that "it"and "there" are often extra words, but they
>are also highly functional ways to extrapose a subject into focal
>prominence. "It is easy to love you." "There's more than one way to
>skin a cat." Linda wants to help, but she is figuring it out for
>herself on the basis of her own thoughtful understanding. It's a
>daunting task.
>     It's not a matter of finding practical ways to use a formal
>understanding, but of recognizing that function is already built in.
>We need to look at how language works. Since effectiveness is context
>specific, we need to look at ways in which language is sensitive to
>context. And by "sensitive to context", I don't mean just dialect and
>social register, but interaction and the construction of shared
>meaning.
>
>Craig
>
>>  Like you, Linda, I work with a lot of people in the business community (as
>>  well as in the legal and judicial field). They want to know why their
>>  MSWord programs put green squiggly lines under every instance of the
>>  passive voice. They do not know (1) what the passive voice is or (2) why
>>  they are being advised to revise it.
>>
>>  Here is what I tell them:
>>
>>  First, I define the passive voice as a sentence in which the subject  of
>>  an active verb is also the recipient of that action.
>>
>>  Second, I tell them that it is perfectly fine to use the passive voice
>>  (which usually launches a rant about all the other ways that MS Word
>>  misleads writers about "problems" in their writing).
>>
>>  Third, I tell them that in many cases it is better to write in the active
>>  voice because passive voice sentences frequently fail to give the reader a
>>  complete picture. If I read "The cake was baked," the picture in my mind
>>  is fuzzy because there is no agent for that action. Good writing seeks to
>>  elicit a picture in the reader's mind that matches the picture the writer
>>  is trying to convey, and passive voice sentences often relay fuzzier
>>  pictures than active voice sentences--not always, but often, and for the
>>  writer who is getting a green squiggly line under nearly every verb in a
>>  document, this point is worth considering.
>>
>>  Finally, I point out that many business writers use the passive voice to
>>  avoid using first-person pronouns--something they were taught to do back
>>  when the paradigm for businesseses was to maintain  professional distance
>>  from the reader. They will write, for example, "Your request has been
>>  deinied" or "Your cooperation is appreciated" to avoid saying 'We have
>>  denied your request" or "We appreciate your cooperation." It strikes me
>>  that sentences such as these last two active voice sentences are more
>>  personal (while still being professional), while the first two passive
>  > voice constructions seem more institutional and impersonal.
>>
>>  Ed and Craig, do these points reflect a functional approach to language or
>>  a group (or personal!) prejudice?
>>
>>  Nancy
>>
>>
>>
>>  ---- Linda Comerford <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>  In my business writing and grammar workshops, I strongly suggest
>>>  avoiding
>>>  passive voice when a sentence contains all the components of an active
>>>  sentence.  Those are normally the ones ending in a "by" prepositional
>>>  phrase.  Since people in the business world are so darn wordy (they tell
>>>  me
>>>  it's a habit from trying to fill those 500-word theme requirements), I
>>>  offer
>>>  them the challenge of looking to save 50 cents a word for every
>>>  unnecessary
>>>  one they use.
>>>
>>>  So they'd save a dollar by changing the following passive sentence to an
>>>  active one:
>>>
>>>  Passive:  The proposal was proofread by the partner.
>>>  Active;  The partner proofread the proposal.
>>>
>>>  To find such passives, I have them use the Control F ("F" stands for
>>>  "Find")
>>>  feature in Microsoft Word to find the word "by."  They prefer that to
>>>  having
>>>  their grammar checkers simply indicating "Passive" without always
>>>  offering
>>>  the active version.
>>>
>>>  By the way, the Control F technique works for finding any words students
>>>  use
>>>  too repetitiously.  Many struggle with using "that" unnecessarily.
>>>  Also,
>>>  one of my pet peeves is expletives, so I have my participants search for
>  >> "It" and "There" to identify and then eliminate them.
>>>
>>>  I hope these tips help all of you too.
>>>
>>>  Linda
>>>
>>>  Linda Comerford
>>>  Comerford Consulting
>>>  317.786.6404
>>>  [log in to unmask]
>>>  www.comerfordconsulting.com <http://www.comerfordconsulting.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>    _____
>>>
>>>  From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>>  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edgar Schuster
>>>  Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 2:05 PM
>>>  To: [log in to unmask]
>>>  Subject: Re: past perfect--a final note
>>>
>>>
>>>  Craig may well be right about Orwell's sentiments; however, Orwell
>>>  himself
>>>  near the end of his essay offers a set of six "rules" (the word is his).
>>>  His fourth rule is "Never use the passive where you can use the active."
>>>   He
>>>  doesn't say "where you can use the active" but not the passive.  But he
>>>  uses
>>>  passives in four of the first 15 sentences of "Politics," and it's not
>>>  at
>>>  all difficult to substitute actives for each them.
>>>  Hurrah for Craig's "we need a more functional orientation to language so
>>>  that choice can be built on something more than personal or group
>>>  prejudice."
>>>
>>>  Ed Schuster
>>>
>>>
>>>  **************
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