Herb: I love your nitpicking; you can nitpick any time you want. There is a highly technical term for the comma after "excited." It's called a "typo." Mea culpea. Helene
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:49:11 -0500From: [log in to unmask]: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"To: [log in to unmask]
Helene,
This verges on nitpicking, but why the comma after “excited”? “She wet her pants” feels like a resultative clause.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of helene hooverSent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:57 AMTo: [log in to unmask]: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"
Well, Bill, I'm with you. I always tell my students that they need to finish the comparison with the comparative "so." I usually use the example, "She was SO excited, she wet her pants," and they tend to remember that one. Of course, they don't always remember to incorporate the ending in their writing, but memories are fairly easily jogged if I mention it again! Helene Hoover
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:58:37 -0500From: [log in to unmask]: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"To: [log in to unmask]
Dick,
This is by no means the first time that what I thought was an odd usage turned out to be the norm, or vice versa (“What do you mean ‘might should’ sounds funny?”). I wonder whether I can blame this one on dialect, or whether (instead) I’ve fallen into the old grammar pedant’s trap of trying to foist my idiolect on the universe.
Thanks, er, muchly,
Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Veit, RichardSent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:29 PMTo: [log in to unmask]: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"
Bill:
I Googled “thanks so much” in parentheses and got 17 million hits. Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and looked at some newspaper archives where the phrase appeared. Here is one example from an Iowa newspaper in 1950. Clearly, it’s not a new expression.
Dick Veit
________________________________
Richard VeitDepartment of EnglishUniversity of North Carolina Wilmington
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William CSent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:39 PMTo: [log in to unmask]: Unresolved comparative "so"
Dear All:
I’m trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative “so” without an accompanying “that” clause, roughly equivalent to “very”:
A: “Thanks so much”
B: “It was so hot.”
I hear (A) very frequently, but I don’t remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis on the “so” and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can’t manage (A) at all – any attempt and I can tell it’s coming out as sarcasm (“Oh, now my leg’s broken. Thanks SO much.”).
I’ve checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn’t been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing it.
Thanks!
Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
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