Brad,
Please stop claiming that you agree with me when obviously, you don't!
For the record, I'd rather listen to Obama speak than Kissinger. On the other hand, I'd rather listen to Kissinger than Dubbya or Sarah Palin!! On the more than other hand, I'd rather listen to Laurence Olivier than any of these others -- especially if he's speaking words by Shakespeare. If you need someone who's still alive, then Maggie Smith or Alan Rickman might get my vote for my "druthers," but know that when I speak of my preferences (which appear to be decidedly British, I suppose), I am NOTclaiming anyone is best or even better than the others.
Finally, what has any of this discussion got to do with teaching grammar? Let those be my last words on this thread.
Paul
________________________________
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:10:06 PM
Subject: Obama: the most articulate American?
And you weren't listening to Paul and Brad. Paul wrote, Brad replied that he agrees with what Paul wrote, and then Paul added as below.
But that's no never mind. Consider this. In "The Audacity of Hope", Barack Obama wrote about Michelle, "Two visions of herself were at war with each other -- the desire to be the woman her mother (had been) was, solid, dependable, making a home and always there for her kids; and the desire to excel in her profession, to make her mark on the world and realize all those plans she (had) had on the very first day (that) we met." (From Today's Washington Post.)
(On February 14 last, I wrote to the listserv: "In the first twenty-one pages of "The Audacity of Hope", by Barack Obama, c.2006, the word "had" appears 68 times. Of the total, 16 are used correctly as the past tense of the verb "to have" (11), or in the past perfect (2), or in the subjunctive (2). Of the 52 in error, 5 use "had been"' instead of "was" or "were", 13 insert the word 'had' in front of the wrong form of an irregular verb, and 34 insert the word "had" in front of a past tense verb.)
As for his speaking articulateness, a dozen people have said to me that Obama is a good teleprompter reader, even a great teleprompter reader. Next time he gives a speech on TV, watch his head and eyes go from side to side, like a music teacher's metronome, seldom or never looking straight ahead. I have conceded to the dozen that they have a point. Let's keep a sharp lookout.
Henry Kissinger has a heavy German accent, having come to this country when he was 13 years old, 7 years past the presumed limit for learning another language without keeping the accent of those at the family dinner table. He's hard to listen to but read a transcript of what he says.
.brad.26nov08.
~~~~~~~~~~~
--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Susan van Druten <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Barack Obama.
But you weren't really listening to Paul. When he said he didn't want to play best and worst list games, you said you agreed with him. Clearly, you do not agree with him. I don't particularly think Obama is a great orator (because politicians are full of b.s.), but since I'd rather listen to him than Henry and since he's kinda in the news right now, he's my choice for greatest political living orator. As far as verbal skills--and not speeches--go, I think Steven Colbert is very clever. But he's playing the role of a sophist. I also like Mark Twain and George Orwell and H.L. Mencken.
~~~~~~~~~~~
On Nov 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Brad Johnston wrote:
Whadaya talking about? There are Best and Worst lists published every day. Netflix sends you a DVD movie and asks you to grade it one to five: hated it, didn't like it, liked it, liked it a lot, loved it. Then their computer tells you what it thinks you'll grade a movie you haven't seen yet.
Every speech I ever gave I had a critic sitting in the back - a speech professor if I could find one.
You don't like my choice, tell us what yours is.
Don't you pay attention to what people write and how they write it? If you do, you must think some are better than others. Henry's going to be tough to beat but go ahead and try it. Take a shot.
Anyone else want to take a shot and let Paul hunker down? It's not Hemingway and it's not George Bush and it's not Mary Higgins Clark. Who is it? Who's really got a handle on our language?
C'mon, gang. Who's really good at it?
~~~~~~~~~~~
--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Paul E. Doniger <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
If you agreed with everything I said, then you wouldn't ask such a question. I see no value in debating who is or who isn't a better user of the English language than Henry Kissinger. I'd rather just dwell joyfully in good language when I come across it and not make comparisons.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
