Oops - please do not distribute the last message to the list -- my bad - just trying to respond to LInda's post.
Thanks, Melinda Borrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM
Subject: Re: modifier placement
Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. Examples:
This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.
*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in 1849.
Happy new year :)
Linda
Linda Di Desidero, PhD
Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
Marine Corps University
Gray Research Center, Room 122
Quantico, Virginia 22134
703-784-4401
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to conclusions.
Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
Dick
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
<blockquote>
Dick & John,
Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December 19).
Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
The adjective phrase (participle) modifying man , which is a part of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on this day in 1849).
--- [log in to unmask] wrote:
From: Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] >
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: modifier placement
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
There are two possible interpretations:
1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of "mansion"
2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.
Best holiday wishes.
Dick
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
<blockquote>
Happy Holidays to all...
I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick ) was born "on this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes...
The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.
--
John Chorazy
English I and III, Academic and Honors
Advisor, Panther Press and Co-advisor, Folio
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000
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