I would argue that the "whom" rule has never actually existed as a part of the English we learn growing up.  It is a function of education and class and as such has taken root in the informal spoken English of those who descend from generations that have mastered formal written English and assume that informal spoken English should be like it.  On this grammatical issue the "good old days" when everyone knew and obeyed the who/whom rules never happened.  The same inconsistency in usage we find and frown on today occurs in English literature going back a thousand years.

The rule is an artifact of formal grammatical education.  Whether that fact ultimately makes any difference is not a grammatical question but a sociological one.

I remember attending a TESOL convention many years ago where I picked up a badge that said "I favor whom's doom."  I think it disappeared from my office sometime in the next couple of decades.  I hope the student or colleague who has it has treasured it as I did.

Herb

Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN  47306
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________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Dick Veit [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 12:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: subject of a clause vs object of a preposition

Geoff,

For clarification, when you say the "incorrect" sentence works better, are you saying that the preposition is better at the end, or that "who" is better than "whom" in the sentence, or both?

Dick

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
There's another issue in this post that hasn't been addressed, and that's the use of "whom" - "from whom he was never apart." My sense of the language today is that "whom" is quickly disappearing from use, and that most native speakers today would say (at least in conversation), "who he was almost ever apart from." Now to the Fussy Grammarian, this construction has problems on two counts - first, of course, is the use of who instead of the "correct" whom; and second is the use of the preposition from at the end of the sentence. In spite of those "errors," I would maintain that this "incorrect" sentence is actually better than the original, as it refers to "advisors" more quickly and clearly than the "correct" version ("by his advisors who . . ." instead of "by his advisors from whom . . . "), and therefore should also be used in standard written English.

Geoff Layton

________________________________
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:02:45 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: subject of a clause vs object of a preposition
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>


Help me with this again, please. I’ve raised this kind of issue before, but I can’t remember your answers. Sorry. I would appreciate your thoughts again. Thank you.

From a statement regarding King Henry VIII from the Wikipedia article “English Reformation”:
“. . .he allowed himself to be influenced by his advisors from whom he was never apart, by night or day; he was thus susceptible to whoever had his ear.”

Am I to understand “whoever” is correct because the verb “had” needs a subject, put better, the clause needs a subject, and that that requirement is more important than the preposition “to” requiring an object?

This is the way I guide myself, but I don’t think I should explain it this way to my ESL students.


Martha G.

PS  Hope the conference was enjoyable and successful.

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