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From:
"Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 14 Mar 2015 21:17:53 +0000
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Coca shows 78,645 instances of "however" in clause internal position. For "therefore," the number is 7,913.

"None of these systems, however, can help the user... (between subject and verb).

    "We are, therefore, forced to remain in this pink, dusty basin." (between an auxiliary and main verb in a passive clause.)

    There seems a great deal of variation in where they appear, which seems much more like an adverbial pattern.

    At times "so" seems to function like a conversational filler. Of the instances when "so" is preceded and followed by a comma, almost all are spoken (obviously transcribed from speech.) "and, so,..." is common, as are 'so, therefore,..."I couldn't find clause internal examples that didn't seem to fit that pattern.

    When "so" opens a sentence (194,585 instances), it is followed by a comma in 26,549. When "however" opens a sentence (50,898 times), it is almost always followed by a comma (49,237).

    It's interesting that "for" shows up in sentence initial position a great deal, but doesn't seem to do so when it's working as a conjunction. ("For example" is very common, as are adverbial prepositional phrases like "For the rest of the day..."). The numbers are daunting, so there may be some buried in the corpus.  My initial observation is that there seems to be far more resistance to using "for" (as conjunction) in sentence opening position.


Craig

________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of GERALD W WALTON <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 3:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 11 Mar 2015 to 12 Mar 2015 (#2015-22)

My disagreement has to do with designations. And, but, and for are coordinative conjunctions. So is not. So is a subordinate, in the category with however and therefore. Gerald

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 14, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:


The corpus of contemporary American English lists 169,326 instances of comma followed by so. Even compensating for "so that" uses, it's clearly the norm. They also list 1,829 instancesa of semicolon followed by "so," enough to convince me that it's a reasonably common option.

    As I said in an earlier post, "so" can be used in ways that don't subordinate the  clause that follows. I can't think of a reasonable reason to require or forbid a semi-colon ahead of it. Apparently, there are plenty of writers and copy editors out there who accept both.


Craig

________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Turner, Tildon L. <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 1:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 11 Mar 2015 to 12 Mar 2015 (#2015-22)

Hi Gerald,

I would have to disagree with your disagreement.  I know of no grammar text or style manual in use at my college or private language schools where I have taught that ever states that any punctuation other than the comma is expected with coordinating conjunctions.  You certainly could use a semicolon, but that is usually used with adverbial conjunctions such as "I missed the bus; therefore, I had to walk to work."

Til



________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of GERALD W WALTON [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 10:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 11 Mar 2015 to 12 Mar 2015 (#2015-22)

I disagree with "It is very hot outside today, so I'm not going to wear a jacket", which typically does take a comma. I think it typically takes a semicolon.
Gerald

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