So if the "as well as" or "in addition to" or "along with" act as a conjunction, then we do lose sight of the plural subject if we treat it as a preposition!  Great point!  Thanks, Craig.Geoff Layton
 
PS to thread originator - you didn't get into trouble!  You got into the heart of the matter!> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:18:32 -0400> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question> To: [log in to unmask]> > A quick look at a few dictionaries shows that "as well as" can be both> preposition and conjunction. A quick google search shows a huge number> of examples of "as well as" as conjunction, but not in the subject> slot, which may be a reaction to the usage difficulties around it. I> won't have access to the OED until tomorrow.> Typically, Merriam-Webster college dictionary lists "brave as well as> loyal" as an example of "as well as" as conjunction.> Why we would have to treat a compound so created as singular in subject> slot is beyond me.> > Craig> > > > Hi again everyone,> >  > > I have another reference: A Writer's Resource (second edition) by> > Maimon, Peritz, and> > Yancey. The authors warn, "[do] not lose sight of the subject when a word> > group separates it from the verb" and "[i]f  a word group beginning> > with as well as, along with, or in addition to follows a singular subject,> > the subject does not become plural" (478).> > Their example:  My teacher, as well as other faculty members, opposes> > the new school policy.> >> > --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:> >> > From: Michael Keith Pen Ultimate Rare Books <[log in to unmask]>> > Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question> > To: [log in to unmask]> > Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 11:29 AM> >> >> >> >> > Morning everyone> >  > > I might have predicted that my very first ATEG post would get me into> > trouble.  So cool to find some colleagues who actually care about> > such things!> >  > > Unfortunately, Dick, I cannot yet cite an authority for you.  Indeed> > two of my own favorite authorities, Foerster & Steadman, in Writing> > and Thinking, suggest that my usage is appropriate "only in informal,> > colloquial discourse" though they seem to waver on that  principle> > elsewhere in W&T.   F&S call this sentence, "He, as> > well as his friends, was present" right but awkward.  I suspect> > they'd use the same classification for the S&W sentence.  Though> > without those commas, it strikes me that "as well as" means simply> > "and." > >  > > I'll forward the question to one of my teachers, Lynn Troyka.  Maybe> > we can get some consensus from her. > >  > > BTW, Craig, I offered up "objective"  a bit> > prematurely.  I'm still working out that theory, but I'll get back to> > you.> >  > > Michael> >  > >  > > -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"> > <[log in to unmask]>: --------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Michael,> >  > > You are saying that you disagree with Strunk and White (quoted by Carol> > below). Are there equivalent authorities you can cite? I am not saying> > “authorities” are ipso facto right (for example, you can still find> > textbooks that pronounce it ungrammatical to end a sentence with a> > preposition), but in matters like this there is often an agreed upon> > consensus.> >  > > Dick> >  > >> >> >> >> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Keith Pen Ultimate> > Rare Books> > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:30 PM> > To: [log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question> >  > >> > Dick et al> >> >  > >> > Ask yourself why "his speech as well as his manners is objectionable"> > doesn't sound right.  In that sentence I suspect that "as well as his> > manners" serves as a delayed, emphatic additional subject--something akin> > to: also especially his manners!--and is therefore and thereby> > plural.  Remember, if the subject is plural, the verb should be> > as well.  Many subjects succeeded by "as well as" are intended> > indeed to be singular.  The subject/example you provided, in most> > contexts, emphatically is NOT.  Grammar, like language and concepts,> > is contextual and objective.> >> >  > >> > Michael  > >> > -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"> > <[log in to unmask]>: --------------> > Thanks, Carol. That is most helpful. Is it is. I knew that intellectually> > but wish it sounded right too. For example, change “manner” to “manners”> > in the Strunk and White example and it doesn’t seem as clear cut: "His> > speech as well as his manners is objectionable."> >  > > Dick Veit> >  > >> >> >> >> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar> > [
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